President May be in Trouble

[Nova_C]

The fedgov makes no money. That which they give to someone must first be forcibly taken from someone else.

This is pretty false. The government has various revenue streams. Some departments turn a profit. Most don't, but taxes are not even close to 100% of the fed's revenue.

I do like how you equate taxation with theft. Makes me wonder how you reconcile 300 years of infrastructure, research and development, education, regulation and defense of one's borders with that. You really think YOU built everything that you benefit from? Or that you paid for it? Or that you earned it?

It was freely given because you were lucky enough to be born in a place with a stable government that enacted various legislation to provide it's citizens with a quality of life that exceeds virtually any historical average.

 

[Rich Z]

That market forces are at work?

Bread costs rise due to drought

Inflation is more than just the government 'printing money', and I'm honestly surprised that you'd try to sell it as something so simple.

Besides, according to your graph, bread went from 8c to 12c in '45 to '50, an increase of 50% whereas it went from $1.00 to $1.15 or so in 2005-2010, an increase of 15%. And in '75 to '80, the price of bread doubled?

I'd like to see some sources on that graph.

That is OK. It's not at all unusual for people to be fooled into the belief that stuff COSTS more than it did years ago, and not the actual REAL explanation that your money is just WORTH less in REAL goods now than it was then.

 

[diamondlil]

That is OK. It's not at all unusual for people to be fooled into the belief that stuff COSTS more than it did years ago, and not the actual REAL explanation that your money is just WORTH less in REAL goods now than it was then.

Yep. Also, consider how many households now have only one wage earner and are comfortable? How many families have the luxury of a mother having the freedom to stay home and raise small children instead of both working to have a decent standard of living?

 

[Nova_C]

That is OK. It's not at all unusual for people to be fooled into the belief that stuff COSTS more than it did years ago, and not the actual REAL explanation that your money is just WORTH less in REAL goods now than it was then.

So inflation is purely a function of the depreciation of currency?

(I do love the condescension in your posts. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.)

 

[BloodyBaroness]

That is OK. It's not at all unusual for people to be fooled into the belief that stuff COSTS more than it did years ago, and not the actual REAL explanation that your money is just WORTH less in REAL goods now than it was then.

So inflation is purely a function of the depreciation of currency?

(I do love the condescension in your posts. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.)

Nova I take it you are not the primary, or probably not even at all, the one who provides food/resources for your household?

Graph accuracy or no, in America, we ARE seeing food costs rise, I'm sure it's happening Canada as well. The dollar has taken some hits, and costs have risen.

You can't buy the same thing for five magic beans that you did last year, when the base value of those magic beans is less. It takes a whole lot more beans to buy that cow. It will take even more beans when the government backing those beans goes broke.

Actually at that point, we probably start using bottle caps, I should start saving. :sobstory:

 

[Chip]

I do like how you equate taxation with theft. Makes me wonder how you reconcile 300 years of infrastructure, research and development, education, regulation and defense of one's borders with that. You really think YOU built everything that you benefit from? Or that you paid for it? Or that you earned it?.

 

[tsst]

This is pretty false. The government has various revenue streams. Some departments turn a profit. Most don't, but taxes are not even close to 100% of the fed's revenue.

Taxes, fees, penalty, fines, etc. Call it what you want but our fedgov is not a producer. Feel free to cite the non-tax, non-fee, non-penalty, non-fine, non-etc profitable revenue stream. The post office was the only dept I can think of that had business model that made money but even they are tax subsidized and granted tax free status on any profit they do make. For the first 200 years plus they were totally tax payer funded. Without the subsidies and tax free status they would be bankrupt too.

I do like how you equate taxation with theft.

No equating, simple fact! It may not appeal to your socialist view of everyone should share but it is a fact.

Makes me wonder how you reconcile 300 years of infrastructure, research and development, education, regulation and defense of one's borders with that. You really think YOU built everything that you benefit from? Or that you paid for it? Or that you earned it?

Lets examine that.
1. The fedgov should not be in education at all.
2. The fedgov has utterly failed at defending our borders. Ney they have not merely failed they have enabled those that ignore our borders. Actually by action of granting those that violate our borders gifts for doing so they have outright invited the violation of our borders.
3. They are not granted the powers for research and development but rather the right to promote private R&D in exchange for some usage.
4. The fedgov was only authorized to build postal roads. The fed highway act was a taxpayer funded public works project. The initial intent was for movement of military.

To answer your questions ... Yes I believe taxpayers built everything I benefit from. Yes I believe I helped pay for it having been a taxpayer for over 30 years.

My father worked a full time job and owned a business to provide for us growing up. And in between he still had time to teach us moral values. At the age of 5 I started doing chores. At 10 after doing chores I mowed lawns and worked on neighbors farms for spending money. At 16 I got my first job and started paying taxes. I worked full time and went to school at night (all paid for by me). At 19 I joined the USAF and left my family to serve (while still going to school as time permitted still paid for by me). A few years after the first Gulf War I got an Honorable Discharge and went to work at a job 2 days later. I have worked multiple jobs at many times in my life. I paid to put myself through school. I have saved and invested in a business. I work a full time career and run a business both of which I pay taxes from. Since the age of 16 until now I have received 2 weeks of unemployment (right before I joined USAF) but have paid in FAR more than that.

I am now paying for much of my kids education too. I say much not because they are getting gov help. I am making my daughter take out student loans for some of it as a life lesson. You SHOULD earn and pay for what you get in life when at all possible.

Before you bemoan more on my complaint about paying taxes to help the needy any further, you should know before 2005 my wife and I gave far more to charity than did the Obamas. I am certain their spike in giving in 2005 was more due to grooming to become POTUS than a sudden heartfelt thing. We also give about 200 hours last year of time to charities. And no my wife didn't buy $500 tennis shoes on the taxpayer dime to fake a couple hrs at a soup kitchen for a photo op. We actually put in the time!

So in short you're damn right we have earned every bit of what we have!

Do I think people need help at times, absolutely. Do I think it is the job of the fedgov to forcibly make that happen NO. As a side note there couldn't be a more inefficient entity than the fedgov to do it.

It was freely given because you were lucky enough to be born in a place with a stable government that enacted various legislation to provide it's citizens with a quality of life that exceeds virtually any historical average.

No it wasn't freely given and it wasn't luck. My father’s ancestors trace back to the colonists. My mother’s immigrated here LEGALLY. My ancestors help build this great nation literally. That may be in part why I struggle so with its destruction at the hands of the 'transformationist' in the White House. The quality of life here exceeds virtually any in history because of its citizens and the values of our founding and Constitution. Our present day fedgov seemingly does everything it can to curb quality of life whether through inept action or lack of action to stop ineptness.

 

[BlackBear123]

Yep. Also, consider how many households now have only one wage earner and are comfortable? How many families have the luxury of a mother having the freedom to stay home and raise small children instead of both working to have a decent standard of living?

Could that possibly have something to do with this:

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/us_home_size_preferences_final.html

Our lifestyle standards have also increased. It's hard to go backwards and give up that McMansion to live in a 1600 sq ft home. Not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is.

 

[Nanci]

The fedgov makes no money. That which they give to someone must first be forcibly taken from someone else.

And I am less and less appreciative of that every day.

 

[BlackBear123]

And I am less and less appreciative of that every day.

I second this

 

[susang]

So, imagine working your same hours making $50 every two weeks and that $50 will only buy you one and two thirds loaves of bread some day.

No big deal? I hope you find your own words filling and nutritious if and when that day comes.

THAT is inflation. THAT comes from governments just printing up money to pay their debts. THAT is a big deal. THAT can destroy our country.

Notice that in the below chart, the last two figures are merely one year apart, instead of five years for the rest of the data points. Guess what THAT means?

Geez, Where did they get that chart even a cheap white no content loaf of bread is $2.00 here the good stuff is $4-5.00. Alas but man can not live on bread alone and certainly no the cheap stuff.
Being prepared is not in a persons vocabulary if they are lazy or can blame disability on the inability to say grow a garden or stock their cupboards. Maybe now I don't mind a neighbor sneaking in and picking tomatoes, but you can rest a sure when the poo hits the fan they will meet a warning first and a gun second.

 

[Chip]

The fedgov makes no money. That which they give to someone must first be forcibly taken from someone else.

Yep. And I am not 110% against *all* entitlement programs. I do think that many (if not most) tend to stifle production and creativity, though. My real problem is how poorly government tends to run things.

 

[Nova_C]

Nova I take it you are not the primary, or probably not even at all, the one who provides food/resources for your household?

Why? What does this have to do with anything?

Graph accuracy or no, in America, we ARE seeing food costs rise, I'm sure it's happening Canada as well. The dollar has taken some hits, and costs have risen.

You can't buy the same thing for five magic beans that you did last year, when the base value of those magic beans is less. It takes a whole lot more beans to buy that cow. It will take even more beans when the government backing those beans goes broke.

Actually at that point, we probably start using bottle caps, I should start saving. :sobstory:

Inflation is a part of a healthy economy. There was a brief period of deflation in the US at the height of the recession because deflation is a mark of an unhealthy economy.

Are you guys seriously arguing that supply and demand has no effect on prices? What the hell happened to the all mighty free market to control prices?

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Why? What does this have to do with anything?

Perspective.

Being political computer jockey reading news and blogs, is a fair bit different that actually experiencing the things you claim to know so much about.

I challenge you be an adult middle class american tax payer, working 40 hours or more per week to support your household and deal with the all things that come along with it.

No amount of reading, watching or following of political reports in the media, blogs, articles, compares with actually being something.

I am an American, I am a tax payer, I am supporting my home. I am not a boy sitting behind a computer professing to be an expert in things I have no experience being.

 

[Nova_C]

Perspective.

Being political computer jockey reading news and blogs, is a fair bit different that actually experiencing the things you claim to know so much about.

I challenge you be an adult middle class american tax payer, working 40 hours or more per week to support your household and deal with the all things that come along with it.

No amount of reading, watching or following of political reports in the media, blogs, articles, compares with actually being something.

I am an American, I am a tax payer, I am supporting my home. I am not a boy sitting behind a computer professing to be an expert in things I have no experience being.

So because my perspective doesn't conform to yours, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about?

 

[BloodyBaroness]

So because my perspective doesn't conform to yours, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about?

Not that at all. You are clearly missing my point.

I like brain surgery and find it fascinating to study, however, I would never profess to tell a brain surgeon how to run his operation.

Come down here and live as an adult tax payer and get a taste of what it's really like actually doing it. Then by all means tell us what we do and do not know.

 

[Nova_C]

Not that at all. You are clearly missing my point.

I like brain surgery and find it fascinating to study, however, I would never profess to tell a brain surgeon how to run his operation.

Come down here and live as an adult tax payer and get a taste of what it's really like actually doing it. Then by all means tell us what we do and do not know.

Does it require me to be an American to know what being a tax payer is like?

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Does it require me to be an American to know what being a tax payer is like?

Couldn't hurt, since we are referencing the American system in the context of this thread.

It would probably help you get a better handle what's actually going on with American federal government. First hand experience is worth years of study.

 

[susang]

Holly this is me moving on , this is me mad at people like you who don’t know where the money comes from and yet believe it will never stop.
Supply and demand what a concept when some can by their supplies with money I earned and what they buy is in great demand so I can no longer buy it.
We actually have a butcher store where I live and I am in shock when I am buying hamburger and the person in front of me is buying T-bones with food stamps. Or when people buy big blocks of cheese with WIC or fresh blackberries with SNAP (they grow wild where we live, paying for them is lazy) Yes I know people always use this analogy.
The problem with an entitled nation is they don’t know when to stop, when to save and when to eat hamburger. Yes at my age one could say I helped create this entitled nation and maybe I did. I also know my kids knew how to work. An entitled nation may not be prepared. I’m not going to throw out percents of people who aren’t prepared, because I don’t know. We did a little challenge here last year who could live on $10 or $15 in groceries a week, by using what they have stored in their house. While I know there are more only three who took the challenge.
I had the distinct unpleasure of knowing two young people 19 and 20 no jobs getting food stamps and free health care. By circumstances they were living with my daughter. They played video games all day, would not go look for work because they had to walk or take a bus. When food was put out they would be the first there, literally once between them they took a whole pizza, when there were at least ten other people to eat. They thought nothing of it. I also loved when their Mom said things like they were raised eating fruits and veggies, not this kind of food they weighed at least 300# each so did Mom. The first thing they bought with food stamps soda and snacks. Or cut them a break their Dad committed suicide. When the younger one did get a part-time job instead of paying rent she went shopping for a new Wii.
I am sick to death with what people think they earned or deserve and don’t get. My Dad was in the Marine Corp for 20+ years, three wars and no one ever talked about PTSD that was a different era though. When my Mom needed medical care the VA did not help. My parents divorced after my Dad got out, his new wife got his VA. I think my Mom earned it not the woman he met 10 years later. My sister was 12 when they divorced she didn’t get VA health care my Mom provided it. He didn’t even pay child support.
I appreciate everything the military does to protect our country and I understand the sacrifice their families make. I lived on bases the first 15 years of my life. I spent lots of holidays without my Dad. I watched families destroyed by the outcome of war.
Does anyone remember Rosie the Riveter a symbol for women/people who didn’t go to war but took care of things at home. All Rosie got was a poster and a flash in the pan memory.
I live in a household of three adults and we spend $200.00 a month on food. We had steak the night of the election we figured however it came out it would be the last time we eat steak, for a long time.
So let me ask is the president in trouble or are we in trouble, how many of you are really prepared when the money stops?

 

[susang]

Does it require me to be an American to know what being a tax payer is like?

No but judging from afar may not be the best way. Do you even work may be more appropriate? Do you pay taxes in any country? I am tired of the ridicule for the way some of us think about our government. The thing is we have the freedom to ask questions, about our government.