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President May be in Trouble

susang said:
Do you even work may be more appropriate? Do you pay taxes in any country?
Click to expand...

I find it very interesting that the implication, not from susang alone, but from many people in this thread is that if someone does not agree with them, they are:

a) lazy
b) unemployed
c) on the government dole or
d) all of the above.

It's a fantastic way to dismiss another point of view out of hand.

But then, this is not really a thread about debate. No one is going to "win" the argument here, and certainly, no one is going to convince anyone else that their way is the one true way. One group can post information from Fox (a very conservative source) all day and the other can post information from Moveon (a very liberal source) all day, and never the twain shall meet.

To answer the inevitable "then why bother reading/posting" question, the answer is: Because I have finally realized the statement above and now it's just to gawp.
 
SarahP said:
I find it very interesting that the implication, not from susang alone, but from many people in this thread is that if someone does not agree with them, they are:

a) lazy
b) unemployed
c) on the government dole or
d) all of the above.

It's a fantastic way to dismiss another point of view out of hand.

But then, this is not really a thread about debate. No one is going to "win" the argument here, and certainly, no one is going to convince anyone else that their way is the one true way. One group can post information from Fox (a very conservative source) all day and the other can post information from Moveon (a very liberal source) all day, and never the twain shall meet.

To answer the inevitable "then why bother reading/posting" question, the answer is: Because I have finally realized the statement above and now it's just to gawp.
Click to expand...

No. You have missed my point entirely.

The reason people keep asking that is because talking about something and doing it are too different things.

I would NEVER expect a 15-19 year to understand what it's like to pay taxes. I ask as a frame of reference. If I'm talking to a person who has no clue what something is like, I change the way I talk about it. It's to help them better understand, not imply that they are lazy.

On the same token I would never expect a 20-30 to have the same experience as a 31-51 year old tax payer. It's merely a question of perspective for reference.
 
BloodyBaroness said:
Couldn't hurt, since we are referencing the American system in the context of this thread.

It would probably help you get a better handle what's actually going on with American federal government. First hand experience is worth years of study.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt the American experience is as unique as you think. Inflation, taxes, unemployment. These are all things all countries address. In fact, in Canada, we have higher taxes than you! I know! Madness!

I also live in Canada's second most expensive city. Yellowknife has a crazy high cost of living. My single bedroom apartment is over $1500 a month. It was the cheapest I could find. I could get a bachelor for $1300, but it was one seedy building, let me tell you.

The cost of bread here is over $2.00, though I can't remember it exactly. Fuel is $1.38 a liter (So like $5 a gallon). A pint of beer is $10. A mixed drink is $14.

Since you seem to be making all kinds of assumptions, Baroness, let me provide some information. I've been working and paying taxes for nearly 20 years. I've been living on my own for 12 years (I ended up having to move back in with my dad after a year for a while when I first moved out at 19. Didn't go so well for me.) I have used unemployment insurance once, when I was laid off a few years ago, otherwise, I have either been employed, or in school, since I was 14.

I know very well how expensive it is to live in the first world. I know very well what it's like to pay taxes and see it squandered by a government that I didn't want in power. I'm living it right now as the Conservative party has given Canada it's largest deficit in history. I don't like it, I don't like what they're doing, and I definitely didn't want them making the calls, but they got the most votes and so it is what it is.
 
SarahP said:
I find it very interesting that the implication, not from susang alone, but from many people in this thread is that if someone does not agree with them, they are:

a) lazy
b) unemployed
c) on the government dole or
d) all of the above.

It's a fantastic way to dismiss another point of view out of hand.

But then, this is not really a thread about debate. No one is going to "win" the argument here, and certainly, no one is going to convince anyone else that their way is the one true way. One group can post information from Fox (a very conservative source) all day and the other can post information from Moveon (a very liberal source) all day, and never the twain shall meet.

To answer the inevitable "then why bother reading/posting" question, the answer is: Because I have finally realized the statement above and now it's just to gawp.
Click to expand...

Did you read the whole thread, because what has some riled up now is someone stating they earned their money VA (from Dads service) and SSI because they are disabled. I am not dismissing another point of view with my comments.
I am happy to hear other points of view, many of the people I consider friends on this forum did not vote the way I did. What we have in common is the notion of earning and working for what we have.
 
SarahP said:
I find it very interesting that the implication, not from susang alone, but from many people in this thread is that if someone does not agree with them, they are:

a) lazy
b) unemployed
c) on the government dole or
d) all of the above.

It's a fantastic way to dismiss another point of view out of hand.

But then, this is not really a thread about debate. No one is going to "win" the argument here, and certainly, no one is going to convince anyone else that their way is the one true way. One group can post information from Fox (a very conservative source) all day and the other can post information from Moveon (a very liberal source) all day, and never the twain shall meet.

To answer the inevitable "then why bother reading/posting" question, the answer is: Because I have finally realized the statement above and now it's just to gawp.
Click to expand...

Actually, My feeling is that if someone disagrees with me on this topic it is because they are probably a
1) student who has not really experianced the real world yet
2) has a job that relies on being paid by a state or federal govermment (teacher, firefighter, police, social worker, etc) so spending cuts affect them.
3) Is unemployed, disabled or on welfare.

And I know also that there are many hardworking people who work for small businesses that I might not see eye to eye with because of the experiance I have RUNNING a small business. I see taxes, fees, licenses and regulations that few consider or even know exist!
 
BloodyBaroness said:
No. You have missed my point entirely.

The reason people keep asking that is because talking about something and doing it are too different things.
Click to expand...

I haven't, actually.

The difference is that I tend to assume that if someone writes a reasoned response, they have some experience and/or reason to express that opinion or point of view. I trust in the fact that they're not just pulling things out of the ether, so I don't need to have their experiences laid out on the table before I'm interested in what they say. Sure, context is often important, but that requirement is not my go-to default.

susang, I have read the whole thread, yes. And yes, I'm aware of that upset. And honestly, I don't understand why someone would claim collecting benefits as a job, either. However, the assumptions are all through the thread, not just in the last few pages.
 
starsevol said:
Actually, My feeling is that if someone disagrees with me on this topic it is because they are probably a
1) student who has not really experianced the real world yet
2) has a job that relies on being paid by a state or federal govermment (teacher, firefighter, police, social worker, etc)
3) Is unemployed, disabled or on welfare.

And I know also that there are many hardworking people who work for small businesses that I might not see eye to eye with because of the experiance I have RUNNING a small business. I see taxes, fees, licenses and regulations that few consider or even know exist!
Click to expand...

I own a small business.

I pay taxes, fees, licenses, and must comply with regulations, too.

I have not been a student for a very long time.

Though I have worked in public service before, I no longer do so.

I am not unemployed, disabled, or on welfare.

And I don't agree with you.

Which is -my- point.
 
SarahP said:
I own a small business.

I pay taxes, fees, licenses, and must comply with regulations, too.

I have not been a student for a very long time.

Though I have worked in public service before, I no longer do so.

I am not unemployed, disabled, or on welfare.

And I don't agree with you.

Which is -my- point.
Click to expand...

I said PROBABLY one of the following.
Maybe you have socialistic tendencies?
 
I have no other further in put than this-

LOL @ the person using their colony ancestors as a way to justify what you've earned, or what you think you deserve. Your ancestors murders entire tribes and stole this land of ours. You shouldn't be proud of that. No one should.
 
fyrefocks said:
I have no other further in put than this-

LOL @ the person using their colony ancestors as a way to justify what you've earned, or what you think you deserve. Your ancestors murders entire tribes and stole this land of ours. You shouldn't be proud of that. No one should.
Click to expand...

Nate, I don't think that was me...but as far as ancestors murdering entire tribes and stealing land...while it is a horrible thing, it wasn't just europeans conquering North America. It was nearly every race conquering land all over the world since the dawn of time. History did not begin in the 1700s. Neandothols had tribes and terratories that they defended, and they fought and killed other tribes for land and hunting grounds. And while it might not be something to be proud of, it also is not something to be ashamed of. It just is.
 
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