President May be in Trouble

[beautifullywild77]

So if they are not proud of killing others and come home with mental issues how can they be proud to serve their country?? By serving their country they inevitably kill innocent civilians.

I think the only reason there are so many men and women joining the army because they are blue eyed when they first join and don't know what to expect. It is also beneficial for their life after the service (if they are lucky enough to survive it). For their career. Military helps pay education,etc.

No I am sorry but for me it's a negative thing. And this is not aimed at America only but every army there is. I am not trying to be ignorant at all but I just really don't understand it. Maybe it's because after the WWII people here are very resistant to join the Army and fight - we just want to be neutral and stay out of it all.

I guess because you have never served you don't understand what is like to be proud to serve your country.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

Look at it a different way, what if there had been no military service to help stand against the Axis powers? Same is true for Iraq. The world could be a very different place.

Innocent people lose their lives in all wars. It's a sad and horrible fact. However, think of how many more people would have lost their lives if the people committing those evils had not been stopped?

I have family in the military that are proud to get out there and make a difference. Making a difference can be simple things like helping area rebuild after a disaster or it could also mean having to take up arms against an enemy.

No one wants, or is proud of civilian/innocent lives being lost. War is hell.

So what are we going to do? Fight until we are all dead?

 

[beautifullywild77]

There will always be war. Look at history of the world.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

I guess because you have never served you don't understand what is like to be proud to serve your country.

Heck that is exactly what I said. I don't understand it. Never have, never will. I am hoping for a war free world but that's never going to happen if things stay like they are now.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

So what are we going to do? Fight until we are all dead?

Nope.

I wish love and rainbow farts could fix the world, but that ain't happening.

Sometimes you have to DEFEND what you love and care about to achieve peace.

It's not as simple as "can we be friends," when you are deal with cultures designed to hate or people bent on destruction.

The best offense is a good defense.

How would you fix the world?

 

[starsevol]

Heck that is exactly what I said. I don't understand it. Never have, never will. I am hoping for a war free world but that's never going to happen if things stay like they are now.

Nope, you are wrong. That is never going to happen because that is never going to happen. In the history of the world, there has never ever been a war free time. Human nature is what it is. Hell even chimp tribes go to war.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

There will always be war. Look at history of the world.

Yeah and that is why we should continue like this. Live like we always. Not.

I am not saying they are soulless murderers at all. I just find it hard to get my head round the fact so many are proud of serving and join the military voluntarily. I am sorry, I hope you haven' taken my posts as personal attacks. I am just stating my opinion.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

Nope, you are wrong. That is never going to happen because that is never going to happen. In the history of the world, there has never ever been a war free time. Human nature is what it is. Hell even chimp tribes go to war.

You may be right, I don't know but it does not make the situation better in my eyes. People can hope for a better life... And I sure do.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Yeah and that is why we should continue like this. Live like we always. Not.

I am not saying they are soulless murderers at all. I just find it hard to get my head round the fact so many are proud of serving and join the military voluntarily. I am sorry, I hope you haven' taken my posts as personal attacks. I am just stating my opinion.

It just hurts to have family members who have died in service to be compared to soulless murderers. The same way you get upset when people start talking about Nazi Germany. Same exact type of defensive feeling come up and we all get angry. Many of us are proud of the good things accomplished by relatives in military. They are not murdering innocent people for fun.

My grandfather fought in WWII to defend and help free people from the Nazi regime. He is no more a killer then the soldier that is helping defeat the terrorist in Afghanistan.

 

[starsevol]

You may be right, I don't know but it does not make the situation better in my eyes. People can hope for a better life... And I sure do.

Sure, you can hope for whatever you like.
I hope to find a million dollars outside in the street.

But there comes a time to grow up and face reality.
Human nature being what it is, no, there will never be a time when there is no war. Like I said, even chimps war. And ants. It is hardwired into us.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

Nope.

I wish love and rainbow farts could fix the world, but that ain't happening.

Sometimes you have to DEFEND what you love and care about to achieve peace.

It's not as simple as "can we be friends," when you are deal with cultures designed to hate or people bent on destruction.

The best offense is a good defense.

How would you fix the world?

Iraq War: (taken from Wikipedia)

Prior to the war, the governments of the United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. In 2002, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441 which called for Iraq to completely cooperate with UN weapon inspectors to verify that Iraq was not in possession of WMD and cruise missiles. Prior to the attack, the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) found no evidence of WMD, but could not yet verify the accuracy of Iraq's declarations regarding what weapons it possessed, as their work was still unfinished. The leader of the inspectors Hans Blix estimated the time remaining for disarmament being verified through inspections to be "months".
After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.‑led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted. Although some degraded remnants of misplaced or abandoned chemical weapons from before 1991 were found, they were not the weapons which had been one of the main arguments for the invasion.


Says it all really. Just pointless.

 

[beautifullywild77]

It just hurts to have family members who have died in service to be compared to soulless murderers. The same way you get upset when people start talking about Nazi Germany. Same exact type of defensive feeling come up and we all get angry. Many of us are proud of the good things accomplished by relatives in military. They are not murdering innocent people for fun.

My grandfather fought in WWII to defend and help free people from the Nazi regime. He is no more a killer then the soldier that is helping defeat the terrorist in Afghanistan.

I agree 110%. My husband is the sweetest, most caring man I know. He would give the shirt off his back to those in need. He volunteered in a combat hospital his last deployment to Iraq. It was mostly Iraqi civilians who were treated.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Iraq War: (taken from Wikipedia)

Prior to the war, the governments of the United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. In 2002, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441 which called for Iraq to completely cooperate with UN weapon inspectors to verify that Iraq was not in possession of WMD and cruise missiles. Prior to the attack, the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) found no evidence of WMD, but could not yet verify the accuracy of Iraq's declarations regarding what weapons it possessed, as their work was still unfinished. The leader of the inspectors Hans Blix estimated the time remaining for disarmament being verified through inspections to be "months".
After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.‑led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted. Although some degraded remnants of misplaced or abandoned chemical weapons from before 1991 were found, they were not the weapons which had been one of the main arguments for the invasion.


Says it all really. Just pointless.

No one said we agree with the reasons of war nor do most of us believe we should of gone to Iraq. But it is what it is... many lost their lives and many are still losing their lives due to suicide.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

It just hurts to have family members who have died in service to be compared to soulless murderers. The same way you get upset when people start talking about Nazi Germany. Same exact type of defensive feeling come up and we all get angry. Many of us are proud of the good things accomplished by relatives in military. They are not murdering innocent people for fun.

My grandfather fought in WWII to defend and help free people from the Nazi regime. He is no more a killer then the soldier that is helping defeat the terrorist in Afghanistan.

Yeah I sure get angry if people CALL ME A NAZI but am sure glad that it is over. WWII I mean. I am not proud of relatives killing in the war but that is a different story.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Yeah I sure get angry if people CALL ME A NAZI but am sure glad that it is over. WWII I mean. I am not proud of relatives killing in the war but that is a different story.

Well then, that anger you get when people call you a nazi, that is the anger we get when someone compares our military family to soulless murderers.

I do not like war, I do not think it needs to be answer to everything.

But when something happens, and a military response is truly needed, then I'm thankful for the men and women who do serve.

 

[Bonkers_Scar2011]

Well then, that anger you get when people call you a nazi, that is the anger we get when someone compares our military family to soulless murderers.

I do not like war, I do not think it needs to be answer to everything.

But when something happens, and a military response is truly needed, then I'm thankful for the men and women who do serve.

Well like in Iraq it WAS NOT TRULY needed. Not at all.

I have never called them soulless murders (beautifullywild77 jumped to that conclusion), I have only stated that I do not understand why so many people voluntarily serve. For me the bad outweighs the good by far but that is just my very own honest opinion and you can't take it from me. Freedom of speech.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I didn't need to jump to any conclusion. It is what I got from your statements. Should I quote them for you? I am sure I am not the only one that felt that is what you were saying.

 

[tsst]

Well like in Iraq it WAS NOT TRULY needed. Not at all.

I have never called them soulless murders (beautifullywild77 jumped to that conclusion), I have only stated that I do not understand why so many people voluntarily serve. For me the bad outweighs the good by far but that is just my very own honest opinion and you can't take it from me. Freedom of speech.

I think you confuse volunteer to serve with being ordered to deploy by POTUS and congress. Young men and women volunteer to be there if needed no more no less. The governments of the world make the decision.

Enjoy that freedom of speech as it was defended by someone somewhere wearing a uniform!

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Well like in Iraq it WAS NOT TRULY needed. Not at all.

I have never called them soulless murders (beautifullywild77 jumped to that conclusion), I have only stated that I do not understand why so many people voluntarily serve. For me the bad outweighs the good by far but that is just my very own honest opinion and you can't take it from me. Freedom of speech.

And it is my Freedom of Speech to let you know how I feel about comments like this:

So if they are not proud of killing others and come home with mental issues how can they be proud to serve their country?? By serving their country they inevitably kill innocent civilians.

That hurts.

I have an employee with PTSD. You know what caused it? Afghanistan rebel fighters using civilians as human shields, which is a common thing over there. He shot a man and killed him by accident. The rebel fighters push civilians in the way to protect their own worthless selves.

He joined the military to help people maintain freedom by defeating the bad guys that would take it away. Not to murder innocent people. He now works with me helping train people what to do and how to protect themselves in violent situations.

I think you confuse volunteer to serve with being ordered to deploy by POTUS and congress. Young men and women volunteer to be there if needed no more no less. The governments of the world make the decision.

Enjoy that freedom of speech as it was defended by someone somewhere wearing a uniform!

Darn skippy.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Just look at how many innocent people people lost their lives in Afghanistan/Iraq. Only few were actual terrorists but innocent civilians. Not sure how one can be proud of killing innocent people - on both sides.

So if they are not proud of killing others and come home with mental issues how can they be proud to serve their country?? By serving their country they inevitably kill innocent civilians.

Just thought this is where I got my conclusion from. I do apologize if I was wrong.