• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

President May be in Trouble

Where does flying planes (full of innocent people) into buildings (full of innocent people) fall in the whole peaceful living idea???

I don't know, sure not peaceful in my book. Apparently if you ask a legitimate question for factual reference, you are being petty. :shrugs:

I just would like to know the reason/facts regarding a few claims that have been made.
 
That is what I was thinking too. I chalked it up to someone not wanting to answer so makes them look good by saying others are just petty and mean!
 
No reason to fight! Peace on earth. For now.

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. (AP) -- Twinkies won't die that easily after all.

Hostess Brands Inc. and its second largest union will go into mediation to try and resolve their differences, meaning the company won't go out of business just yet. The news came Monday after Hostess moved to liquidate and sell off its assets in bankruptcy court citing a crippling strike last week.

The bankruptcy judge hearing the case said Monday that the parties haven't gone through the critical step of mediation and asked the lawyer for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, which has been on strike since Nov. 9, to ask his client, who wasn't present, if the union would agree to participate. The judge noted that the bakery union, which represents about 30 percent of Hostess workers, went on strike after rejecting the company's latest contract offer, even though it never filed an objection to it.

"Many people, myself included, have serious questions as to the logic behind this strike," said Judge Robert Drain, who heard the case in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York in White Plains, N.Y. "Not to have gone through that step leaves a huge question mark in this case."

Hostess and the union agreed to mediation talks, which are expected to begin the process on Tuesday.

In an interview after the hearing on Monday, CEO Gregory Rayburn said that the two parties will have to agree to contract terms within 24 hours of the Tuesday since it is costing $1 million a day in overhead costs to wind down operations. But even if a contract agreement is reached, it is not clear if all 33 Hostess plants will go back to being operational.

"We didn't think we had a runway, but the judge just created a 24-hour runway," for the two parties to come to an agreement, Rayburn said.

Hostess, weighed down by debt, management turmoil, rising labor costs and the changing tastes of America, decided on Friday that it no longer could make it through a conventional Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring. Instead, the company, which is based in Irving, Texas, asked the court for permission to sell assets and go out of business.

It's not the sequence of events that the maker of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Ho Ho's envisioned when it filed for bankruptcy in January, its second Chapter 11 filing in less than a decade. The company, who said that it was saddled with costs related to its unionized workforce, had hoped to emerge with stronger financials. It brought on Rayburn as a restructuring expert and was working to renegotiate its contract with labor unions.

But Rayburn wasn't able to reach a deal with the bakery union. The company, which had been contributing $100 million a year in pension costs for workers, offered workers a new contract that would've slashed that to $25 million a year, in addition to wage cuts and a 17 percent reduction in health benefits. But the bakery union decided to strike.

By that time, the company had reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, which urged the bakery union to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking. Although many bakery workers decided to cross picket lines this week, Hostess said it wasn't enough to keep operations at normal levels.

Rayburn said that Hostess was already operating on razor thin margins and that the strike was the final blow. The company's announcement on Friday that it would move to liquidate prompted people across the country to rush to stores and stock up on their favorite Hostess treats. Many businesses reported selling out of Twinkies within hours and the spongy yellow cakes turned up for sale online for hundreds of dollars.

Even if Hostess goes out of business, its popular brands will likely find a second life after being snapped up by buyers. The company says several potential buyers have expressed interest in the brands. Although Hostess' sales have been declining in recent years, the company still does about $2.5 billion in business each year. Twinkies along brought in $68 million so far this year.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-asks-hostess-mediate-union-203749038.html
 
Where does flying planes (full of innocent people) into buildings (full of innocent people) fall in the whole peaceful living idea???
Where does killing thousands more (even innocent) in revenge sound like a solution?.. peace is everything but violence, it's not just a hippy fantasy. Nothing was peaceful about 9/11.. that's my point. We need a different approach to not only responding to our threats, but to also creating a trust that we aren't a country of destroy and conquer, as it was under Bush, and would have been under both McCain and Romney.

People don't want to admit it, but we are in a much more safe situation under this administration. When's the last time you've seen the "terror alert" bar?..honestly. I don't think I've seen it in years. Not to say we're clear sailing, but less chaos is occurring on our behalf, and less of us are dying.
 
Btw, I choose not respond to a couple of you. Just trolling for arguing with the typical "you won't respond" bit. I haven't directed anything at anyone, but if people should become defensive, I can usually tell why. And you can never win an argument against pride, so I"llbleave that fun for someone else.
 
I still don't see where asking for sources is trolling? If I make a claim, I have the ability to back it up. I would like to know where the information came from and Rich asked a legitimate question.
 
:headbang:

Beth and Autumn, I hate to do it but I have to call Godwin's law on you both. Unfortunately you're now no longer allowed to post in this thread. (Autumn is secretly happy dancing to the hamster dance at work)

Next time, ladies, please come prepared with a better defense to this peace trolls terrible offense.

:smash:

So Mr. Fyrefocks how am I a troll? Only because I stated my opinion? Take it or leave it it is not going to change.

And they only made a comparison about Hitler/Nazis and did not offend me in the slightest. I did get upset when someone called me a Nazi in another thread and that's only natural. So tell me this - if I am not allowed to get upset after being called a Nazi, why would you get upset (calling me a troll kinda showed that) only cause I stated my opinion?

I never once stated all soldiers are soulless murderers but I just don't see how fighting violence with violence is going to help! Period.

9/11 was very tragic and I feel for those who lost their lives and their families and friends but what about those who lost their lives in the attacks to fight back? Are those lives less valuable? Not worth to be mentioned and mourned? Or are the attacks and the war that followed just seen a necessity?

To me it is all the same and one is just as bad as the other.

I do apologize if you guys took it personal but I feel just as strongly about the war as you do, I just have a different point of view. I respect your opinions although I don't understand and share them. I hope you will do the same.
 
It is also aimed at them ! When will you understand that it is not only about Americans ?!?!
And not every Muslim wants all of us "infidels" dead ! Not all of us have problems with Muslims either !
 
Of course I know that not every muslim wants us dead!
But there is a fringe group that truly believes that their religion requires them to kill us!
Your opinion is sweet, young, idealistic, warm, wonderful and very loving. It is just unrealistic. Sad but true.
 
I think you'll find Starsevol specifically said 'radicals'.

I appreciated that, though radicals exist in every corner of the world, and are not just Muslim. Most faith's have a long history of violence, even within it's own peoples. Ideology is another source of radicalism.

The problem isn't war, the problem is people. The problem is nature. Nature isn't peaceful. It's bloody and isolating. It's full of starvation, fear and danger. Plants and animals are constantly battling each other for survival.

Humans have managed to include esoteric concepts like religion and ideology, but the results are the same. To pretend that the world isn't like this is not only naive, but dangerous all on its own.
 
I think you'll find Starsevol specifically said 'radicals'.

I appreciated that, though radicals exist in every corner of the world, and are not just Muslim. Most faith's have a long history of violence, even within it's own peoples. Ideology is another source of radicalism.

The problem isn't war, the problem is people. The problem is nature. Nature isn't peaceful. It's bloody and isolating. It's full of starvation, fear and danger. Plants and animals are constantly battling each other for survival.

Humans have managed to include esoteric concepts like religion and ideology, but the results are the same. To pretend that the world isn't like this is not only naive, but dangerous all on its own.

O...M...G.... Nova you are scaring me! We agree!! Alert the media! :)

Oh yes, radicals are everywhere.
Radical muslims want dead any of those who don't share their faith.
Left wing radicals blow up labs, practice eco terrorism, and do Unibomber type crime.
Right wing radicals hate anyone who is not exactly like they are, can be KKK or neonazis, and want their women barefoot and pregnant.
Granted, this is just a generalization, your mileage may vary, but you get the idea.
 
Oh and Bethany you asked me what Europe would of done if America hadn't come to save us. You may want to read up on the facts here.

Thousands of American soldiers where killed in Normandy, France just because of stupidity. The only thing that saved the rest was Hitler being equally stupid. There were too many Americans for the Nazis that were deployed there. If there would have been an entire army awaiting American troops - Americans would have never stood a chance. They attacked from the sea and Nazis shot them from a much higher position overlooking the area. Hitler just never thought so many would come.

Also if Hitler would have taken over London right at the beginning it would not have been half as interesting for Americans to come "save" us. Media also propagandised the ship that was attacked by the Germans to be a Cruise liner full of civilians - it was a Cruise liner but in fact full of soldiers and weapons and to attack that was a conclusive reasoning (Nazis point of view of course) in times of war. And that was the final straw and provoked Americas decision to march into France and fight against the Nazis.

There is a lot of ifs in all of this but I just want you to see this side too. While I find it honourable to fully support and stand behind a country, I don't think it is good to defend this countries every move. There is good and bad everywhere. And only you can make the decision what you want to follow and believe and what not. There are two sides to absolutely EVERYTHING.
 
Oh and Bethany you asked me what Europe would of done if America hadn't come to save us. You may want to read up on the facts here.

Thousands of American soldiers where killed in Normandy, France just because of stupidity. The only thing that saved the rest was Hitler being equally stupid. There were too many Americans for the Nazis that were deployed there. If there would have been an entire army awaiting American troops - Americans would have never stood a chance. They attacked from the sea and Nazis shot them from a much higher position overlooking the area. Hitler just never thought so many would come.

Also if Hitler would have taken over London right at the beginning it would not have been half as interesting for Americans to come "save" us. Media also propagandised the ship that was attacked by the Germans to be a Cruise liner full of civilians - it was a Cruise liner but in fact full of soldiers and weapons and to attack that was a conclusive reasoning (Nazis point of view of course) in times of war. And that was the final straw and provoked Americas decision to march into France and fight against the Nazis.

There is a lot of ifs in all of this but I just want you to see this side too. While I find it honourable to fully support and stand behind a country, I don't think it is good to defend this countries every move. There is good and bad everywhere. And only you can make the decision what you want to follow and believe and what not. There are two sides to absolutely EVERYTHING.

Ok so those are your facts, but it does not answer my question. You stated mistakes made by both the US and by Hitler, but that does not tell me what would have happened if US troops never fought there.
Those ovens and gas chambers were killing millions nonstop.
How many more would have died if the US hadn't stepped in?
 
Back
Top