I just read through most of this thread until I got bored of reading all the same things over again. :blowhead: The only thing that I can say is WOW. It amazed me that this topic is so heated in how people are talking to each other. I know I'm new and no one here knows me at all, but come on. Why can't every one just get along? I think this is the kind of thing that people are going to disagree on, but I just don't understand the point in being emotional and at least appearing to be hurt by what someone else said in response to you. Anyways... I don't like the way that the snake looks without scales. It kind of creeps me out and it just doesn't look right to me. I would never buy one, even if they were proven to be as healthy as any other corn, however the aspect of seeing one in person and holding one excites me. That is just because it is weird though.
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Scale less Corns anyone?
- Thread starter BT41042
- Start date
NyanNyan
Nyeh
that was a lulzy argument. I've seen scaleless snakes before: just like other hairless animals in regards to needing special attention. No one is talking about the sphynx cat huh? I didn't like them but really I didn't know everyone was releasing their captives into the wild 
how about making corns the size of boas so they survive better huh?
how about making corns the size of boas so they survive better huh?
Kokopelli
Resident Boa Fanatic
Bravo, just when I thought this couldn't become more childish than it already has. Here's a candy, run along and play in the sand.
KJUN
New member
that was a lulzy argument. I've seen scaleless snakes before: just like other hairless animals in regards to needing special attention. No one is talking about the sphynx cat huh? I didn't like them but really I didn't know everyone was releasing their captives into the wild
The hairless rats were mentioned, though.
Hey, I told you - this is FUNNY. Nothing else. I'm just amazed how far you have gone to try and get the last word when it is OBVIOUS I'm not serious in my replies to you. It's a waste of time. I'd rather argue with a kid over why he can't grow up to be a fire truck.
Suncoast Herps
New member
As I stated earlier, the feel of the skin is smooth and slick. Very much like the skin of a neonate boa but a little more rubbery
Suncoast Herps
New member
Both of your questions are answered in the original post
Suncoast Herps
New member
Kokopelli
Resident Boa Fanatic
Sure it is- but how long does it take for a major change to take place? a good dozens of years.
In the wild, the mutations that make the snakes more efficient(in whatever manner) will be the one to be passed on.
You set no barrier, you will have a nice looking specimen, you will -insure- it's mating. Something which isn't guaranteed in the wild, not by a long shot.
It's a process which is spread over dozens of years, and every single carrier of said mutation has to endure the wild- his abilities put to the test all the time.
If they manage to overcome said mutation and are still healthy enough to make it in the wild- than sure, these snakes I have no issues with.
When you take it upon yourself to -guarantee- the acceleration and manifestation of a mutation which may or may not have made it in the wild at all. You strip natural selection from the equation and you guarantee the coupling of two specimen who share the -same- mutation. That's trimming the statistics by a longshot.
Think before you breed, I don't see how anyone is going to stop this altogether. I don't want to see snakes end up as the canines of today. Others may feel differently. :shrugs:
In the wild, the mutations that make the snakes more efficient(in whatever manner) will be the one to be passed on.
You set no barrier, you will have a nice looking specimen, you will -insure- it's mating. Something which isn't guaranteed in the wild, not by a long shot.
It's a process which is spread over dozens of years, and every single carrier of said mutation has to endure the wild- his abilities put to the test all the time.
If they manage to overcome said mutation and are still healthy enough to make it in the wild- than sure, these snakes I have no issues with.
When you take it upon yourself to -guarantee- the acceleration and manifestation of a mutation which may or may not have made it in the wild at all. You strip natural selection from the equation and you guarantee the coupling of two specimen who share the -same- mutation. That's trimming the statistics by a longshot.
Think before you breed, I don't see how anyone is going to stop this altogether. I don't want to see snakes end up as the canines of today. Others may feel differently. :shrugs:
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
But your post could then be applied to any recessive morph, all the colour and pattern mutations. With that attitude about only having naturally selected animals, you could never breed and raise your own snakes, just collect adults from the wild that have survived in natural settings :shrugs:
NyanNyan
Nyeh
I've read every post here, basically because I was bored and I couldn't sleep. So, its really funny how some people here keep bringing up the ethics of this and how its unethical to bring scale-less snakes into the world and breed them for money and such. They have been doing it with other mammalian animals and it too creates problems with hydration, skin issues,warmth, etc. but you see people keep them as pets and treat them as pets with higher needs. A cat (or a rat as KJUN so kindly pointed out to me) without hair will have problems keeping warm because a coat of fur helps insulate. Whats the response to that, pet owners? Well to treat it with more respect and proper care. Now people are already abusing perfectly fine animals so if someone were to debate that people won't keep up with their CAPTIVE scale-less snake: some people don't keep up with their scaled snake either. Ethics ethics ethics: What a broad and misused term. Tell me exactly, what is ethical about keeping a snake who can never be domesticated or "appreciate" what we do for them ethical in the first place if we were to talk about ethics?
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
I agree with you, I think we should start with the lactose tolerance in humans. This is a genetic mutation that is being bred into humans today. You know only 10% of the world population can digest milk and its over 50% in the United States.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
I always wanted to be a carnival when I grew up. Teaching is kinda like a circus, so kinda what I wanted.
JFDery
New member
I think it may prove very difficult to support arguments that point out single mutations as being detrimental to the biological nature or evolution of a species, without including all aspects of what captivity does in that same game. I believe the effect of captive animals on wild populations (including their evolution) is mostly linked to collecting wild animal, and releasing captives (voluntarily or not). If a chimera corn snake is bred in captivity, and kept in captivity, it should have no impact on wild population evolution thru natural selection. No captive breeding project we have has anything to do with natural selection, morph or no morph. I agree that a scale less snake is unnatural. But so are most of the other morphs we have, along with keeping snakes in captivity, which is why I think we shouldn’t use evolution, natural selection or even accurate biological representation of a species as arguments when defending dislike of a captive animal mutations. Each would draw a tolerance line at a different level.
I think it’s very difficult to stay completely objective on this topic if you try to answer too many questions at once. If the debate is animal health or well being, this should be addressed by itself. Previous researches have been done on the subject; they can be used to direct research for this case. Water loss would be an interesting question to explore. Correlation has been made with absence of b-keratin in some scale less snakes (perhaps all, I don’t know) and water loss. Same thing could be explored with this case, but does this tell you that the animal suffers in captivity from that condition? Good question. Intuitively, I would say that this trait would be an evolutionary dead end in natural conditions. But that’s another topic.
KJUN
New member
Jumpin' Jehosaphat! I'm off topic now (once again), but are 90% of adults worldwide unable to digest cheese?? My god - I wouldn't want to live if I couldn't eat cheese. I never imagined it could be that high. It makes sense, though. Lactose intolerance is normal in adult mammals. What better way to force a baby mammal to wean than to have some gene shut off at the correct age that makes them sick if they nurse. Simple evolution, but I never knew it was that high in humans worldwide.
You know what I do for a living, but I always to earn my advance degrees in non-Euclidean Geometry. Pretty far stretch away from making gators puke, eh? I rarely regret my carrer choice since I do love what I do now....but I do miss the challenges of my past theoretical math courses.
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
I guess this is what I am trying to point out in a few of my posts but I think it has gone over the heads of a few. Most people do not understand evolution and how it works.
Typically animals evolve to best suit their environment. We all know that, heck, you know there was an animal that had to go from scales to scaleless to become mammals. Where did this happen? What caused this? Is the same thing going on here with these snakes?
Or is their environment changing that allows this to happen? We do not know until there is research done on this.
Now tha twould be an interesting job, call up Mike Rowe.
jiva
New member
Seriously? I thought I was the only one! ...I am still a little bit of a carnival...as much carnival that you can fit in one person...
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
He used to do that, now he just teaches the kids at blindergarden that were to lazy to get into A&M. Many of them may be my students, they have no desire to better themselves, and fail to comprehend the fact that the decisions they make now will affect their future.
ZoologyMajor
100% Addicted
It won't let me rep you at the moment so I am reping you in spirit. :rofl: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Messorius
New member
Jumpin' Jehosaphat! I'm off topic now (once again), but are 90% of adults worldwide unable to digest cheese?? My god - I wouldn't want to live if I couldn't eat cheese. I never imagined it could be that high. It makes sense, though. Lactose intolerance is normal in adult mammals. What better way to force a baby mammal to wean than to have some gene shut off at the correct age that makes them sick if they nurse. Simple evolution, but I never knew it was that high in humans worldwide.
You know what I do for a living, but I always to earn my advance degrees in non-Euclidean Geometry. Pretty far stretch away from making gators puke, eh? I rarely regret my carrer choice since I do love what I do now....but I do miss the challenges of my past theoretical math courses.
Yup! Cool, innit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#History_of_genetic_prevalence