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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

dave partington said:
Why is it when I get a mess of hatchlings and put them all together in a container, and wait for the first shed, after which they are housed individually,
why is it, if it is so stressful on them,
that they ball up together?
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What are those orangy shatter like babies which cannot be shatters?

By the way, even juvies and adults pile up about 85% of the time, even if they have multiple warm spots and hides. I refuse to believe they are programmed to need/want exactly the same 85% of the time AND to prefer that above being alone. (darn I do get to discuss co-habbing again... Dave's fault!).
 
diamondlil said:
Personally, Dave, as the majority of cannibalism photos I've seen have been of hatchlings, I separate mine ASAP after hatching. Knowing my luck I'd find one precocious babe with it's clutchmate disapperaing inside if I didn't.
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Good point Janine, I do that too because all corn cannibalism photo's I have seen where hatchlings.
 
diamondlil said:
Personally, Dave, as the majority of cannibalism photos I've seen have been of hatchlings, I separate mine ASAP after hatching. Knowing my luck I'd find one precocious babe with it's clutchmate disapperaing inside if I didn't.
Click to expand...

airenlow said:
Competition for resources...
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Both.

I've seen a fair few photos and first hand accounts of baby cannibalism. Separate after the first shed. Happens in nature, they all start together for a bit, then disperse.

If they were meant to stay together, we would see roving packs of corns moving about. They are more solitary by nature, with the exception of den sharing for winter or breeding. The times of den sharing is based purely on "we are gonna both die unless we are cool with this for a bit," then they go their separate ways.
 
My 21 cents again.
1. If you breed even a pure species to improve upon it, then you are seeking to change the status quo and thus... you are not truly satisfied with it... or else why seek change... thus.... it is not such a far leap to consider my idea of hybridizing to further that change... in effect... to speed it up as the genetic pool becomes larger with hybrids and thus the possibilities increase as well. Arguing over how much to hybridize and how much the snake must look like a hybrid versus a corn marginalizes the corn morphs we already have because of hybridizing and the genes that are utilized for certain morphs that came from other species.
2. I've heard that pure cornsnakes cohabit fine. Its those that have a bit of something else hidden in them that don't cohabit quite so well. If this is true, then one would want to cohabit cornsnakes to eliminate or figure out which cornsnakes exhibited a non-corn behavior. In this manner, one could at least select for cornsnake behavior... even if one were to continue to keep the noncornsnake genes for color/pattern, etc. for creating new morphs. For me, it is a matter of selecting out the traits you desire to keep as well as the traits you desire to add. There is no point in making a hybrid that does not give some new phenotype to a corn or corn hybrid. Any thoughts or clarifications on this anyone?
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
My 21 cents again.
2. I've heard that pure cornsnakes cohabit fine. Its those that have a bit of something else hidden in them that don't cohabit quite so well. If this is true, then one would want to cohabit cornsnakes to eliminate or figure out which cornsnakes exhibited a non-corn behavior. In this manner, one could at least select for cornsnake behavior... even if one were to continue to keep the noncornsnake genes for color/pattern, etc. for creating new morphs. For me, it is a matter of selecting out the traits you desire to keep as well as the traits you desire to add. There is no point in making a hybrid that does not give some new phenotype to a corn or corn hybrid. Any thoughts or clarifications on this anyone?
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You keep amazing me Carpe, you are even better at this than me :p
 
SnakeAround said:
What are those orangy shatter like babies which cannot be shatters?

By the way, even juvies and adults pile up about 85% of the time, even if they have multiple warm spots and hides. I refuse to believe they are programmed to need/want exactly the same 85% of the time AND to prefer that above being alone. (darn I do get to discuss co-habbing again... Dave's fault!).
Click to expand...

coral ghost terrazzo & spare parts
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
My 21 cents again.
1. If you breed even a pure species to improve upon it, then you are seeking to change the status quo and thus... you are not truly satisfied with it... or else why seek change... thus.... it is not such a far leap to consider my idea of hybridizing to further that change... in effect... to speed it up as the genetic pool becomes larger with hybrids and thus the possibilities increase as well. Arguing over how much to hybridize and how much the snake must look like a hybrid versus a corn marginalizes the corn morphs we already have because of hybridizing and the genes that are utilized for certain morphs that came from other species.
2. I've heard that pure cornsnakes cohabit fine. Its those that have a bit of something else hidden in them that don't cohabit quite so well. If this is true, then one would want to cohabit cornsnakes to eliminate or figure out which cornsnakes exhibited a non-corn behavior. In this manner, one could at least select for cornsnake behavior... even if one were to continue to keep the noncornsnake genes for color/pattern, etc. for creating new morphs. For me, it is a matter of selecting out the traits you desire to keep as well as the traits you desire to add. There is no point in making a hybrid that does not give some new phenotype to a corn or corn hybrid. Any thoughts or clarifications on this anyone?
Click to expand...

Yes, 21 cents is about right. It's at least wayyyy over 2!!!
As far as why I breed pure corns (or as pure as can be found anymore), I don't do it so much to improve what's there, but to spread the joy so to speak. I like my status quo where it is!!

And, no about corns cohabing fine. You have heard wrong. Why don't they travel in packs in nature?
 
starsevol said:
Yes, 21 cents is about right. It's at least wayyyy over 2!!!
As far as why I breed pure corns (or as pure as can be found anymore), I don't do it so much to improve what's there, but to spread the joy so to speak. I like my status quo where it is!!

And, no about corns cohabing fine. You have heard wrong. Why don't they travel in packs in nature?
Click to expand...

As mentioned many times before, over here in Europe it is a very common practice, many people reach their goals with healthy snakes whilst co-habbing. Can you deny that Beth? I think it is good though when co-habbing to do it from when they are about 6 months old. I have noticed that my snakes that I got as yearlings from the States, which were not co-habbed I assume, needed a little getting used to, two females are still housed alone because they couldn't get used to it. The males are fine with it though. Competition stimulates strenght and skills in nature by the way. I just take out the ones that are too sensitive, the others deal with it. My lovely little micro scale yearling female started eating ravenously instead of just good after being put together with another female in a two feet x two feet viv. Yet I have not seen any animosity between them or stressed behavior.
 
airenlow said:
How about Swag-ians?
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Nah, they are just good at random one-offs. :bounce:



I prefer experience, I have first hand, witnessed a corn attempt to constrict and devour another adult corn. I have also witnessed several cases of young/young adult cannibalism. Some in my collection, some in other peoples.

I see zero reason to cohab.
 
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