What's the weight of your largest '05?

[Roy Munson]

Do your snakes take the food with out a problem even in such a short time span?

Mine didn't have a problem on that schedule. I think the majority of mine would have eaten daily as small hatchlings if I had chosen to feed them that frequently. In the wild, I don't think you'll see a hatchling pass up too many available meals, if the meals are of reasonable size.

 

[Taceas]

To be honest, I've tried the double food-item thing in the past and more times than not, it ended with a regurge...especially in the younger snakes. So I just don't do it anymore unless I feel the snake can handle it. Once they get onto fuzzies, everything is slit as well.

My hatchlings get fed every 5 days around here, which I feel is a safe time frame. It seems when I press the "more often" button, something digestively happens as well. Some hatchlings this year did get fed every 3 days, but they were large hatchlings and after 3 days they'd pooped out their meal and were looking for more. Most hatchlings would not have fit that criteria, sad to say.

So I don't think I'm necessarily starving them by feeding every 5 days, I just don't see the point cramming food down their throats being good for them. Sure it makes them grow big in a short amount of time, but is that really good for them in the long run? No one really knows.

And what do you do about those of us with 03's or 04's that are smaller than these 05's? Have we been nutritionally denying these guys food? I think not. If anything, they get MORE food than everyone else in hopes that they finally find a growth spurt.

To show how pathetic I compare:

Largest 05 is: 25g

- Amel Milksnake Phase "Pippi"

Smallest 05's are: 10g

- Miami het Motley (male)
- Anery (male) SHH 10/05
- Anery (female) SHH 10/05

The rest of my own hatchlings are 20g with a few 15g's for that late Oct. clutch. And 15's for those hatchlings I bought in late Summer/Fall.

My 04's are:

120g - Motley (female) SHH 8/04
25g - Snow (female)
20g - Snow (female)


My 03's range in sizes:

315g - Amel Motley (female) SHH 8/03
160g - Normal het Ice (female)
135g - Hypo Lavender (female)
130g - Bloodred (male)
75g - Pewter (female)

So...there you have it.

 

[Roy Munson]

It seems when I press the "more often" button, something digestively happens as well.

I know what you mean. Every snake's different. For a couple of my '05s, there was a period of time when they would take double-pinks for three or four feedings without a problem, then puke on the next feeding. This would be a cyclical thing. When I looked at my records, the best way I could describe it was that they were getting "backed up." But these were my most troublesome hatchlings, and shed timing was a factor too. :shrugs:

 

[Preita]

I did feed every 5 days with a single pinky and the last feeding I moved him up to 2 pinkies before I try a fuzzy. I think that my one piggers would have also eaten every day if I made it available. Some of them I believe are just pigs

 

[Jynx]

Holy CRAP MB!!!! Sharon is friggin huge! She's an 05? Are you sure??? Jeez... Slingshot isn't even that big yet!

My biggest 05 is my butter girl, Parkay. Technically she's an 05... she was hatched out in late Jan, but I consider her an 04. She's hitting about 110g right now.

 

[Mary-Beth]

Holy CRAP MB!!!! Sharon is friggin huge! She's an 05? Are you sure??? Jeez... Slingshot isn't even that big yet!

My biggest 05 is my butter girl, Parkay. Technically she's an 05... she was hatched out in late Jan, but I consider her an 04. She's hitting about 110g right now.

hee hee
TECHNICALLY, I'm not sure he's an '05. I bought him in March and he weighed 12g on the 30th of that month. The way he grows LLL would have had to starve him for him to be an '04.

I apologize, that last sentence doesn't sound right but I have a migraine so that's the best you'll get from me right now. :cheers:

 

[Duff]

Actually, I do stuff them when they are on pinkies, and I do so unapologetically. When they are on single pinks, I feed every third day. When they are on double pinks, I feed every fourth day. When they move up to fuzzies and beyond, I feed every sixth day. When they exceed 250g, or so, I move it out to every seventh day. Joe Pierce has some interesting things to say about feeding in his "XXXL Corns" thread in his "Snakes Alive" forum. I agree with him 100%, even though I probably feed a bit more conservatively than he does. I hear about people giving their hatchlings a newborn pink once a week, and I think, "how the heck are those snakes ever going to grow?" For those who haven't seen Joe's thread, check it out.

And everyone thinks it's cool how fast your corns grow?? From my past reading experience here, power feeding (yes, that's what the above is describing) has never been accepted, but guess once you get in good with everyone, you can do whatever you want without anyone saying anything. Hope you're at least gonna be apologetic to your breeding slaves down the road when they run down early from being pumped full while young. If you're that impatient, then maybe you should just find some adults instead of buying hatchlings and racing them up to weight.

To each his own, but I'll keep my corns on a more natural and healthy growth cycle and wait for them to be ready for breeding, not push them to fit MY schedule.

 

[cornsnakekid92]

NO one here is really power feeding, Dean just feed his on a " more rigorous " schedule when they are on pinks then most.

 

[Preita]

guess once you get in good with everyone, you can do whatever you want without anyone saying anything. Hope you're at least gonna be apologetic to your breeding slaves down the road when they run down early from being pumped full while young.

Ouch. Bitter much? His blizzard (who is a total beast) only ate live so I doubt he was shoving food down her throat.

 

[Hurley]

I personally feed fairly modestly and my snakes grow accordingly. I couldn't feed on a 3 days schedule even if I wanted to, I'd never sleep. I'm guessing my largest 05's are around 50 grams, they range all the way down to around 15 grams or so in the scrawny second-clutchers, I'm guessing. (Haven't weighed them recently.) Could they be larger if on a faster schedule? I'm sure, but there's no reason for me to do so. They'll grow as they grow, and in good shape. I've got one gal here that I got as a 250 gram yearling. She is best described by the term "soft". The muscle tone just doesn't seem to be there, she's doughy. Still, after a couple years, there is a definite difference in her compared to the others.

I feed cut frozen-thawed rodents of appropriate size, generally single items, once every 5 to 7 days as hatchlings, 7 days as yearlings, and 7 to 14 days as subadults to adults. The bulk of them eat rats when they are old enough with mice here and there. The adults occasionally get chicks or quail as well.

Hatchlings seem to sit in limbo at every 7 days for me, so I try to feed them every 5, but it doesn't always work out that way given my schedule. If I tried to feed every 3 or 4 days, I'd end up throwing away too much food as I get many more refusals and that gets costly. I don't cross offer food items.

I think it is all in what the corn is geared for. It seems like animals I've gotten from slower feeding regimes can't tolerate moving up to a more rapid feeding schedule without gurging or refusing meals. Likewise, animals from a faster feeding regime seem to drop weight if the schedule is slowed. (Talking young hatchlings here, and just my personal experiences.)

 

[cka]

hmmmm...I too think every 3 days is too much, but thats my opinion...I don't think Roy is "in good with everyone, you can do whatever you want" enough that i wont voice my "opinion" that he feeds his hatchling corns more than i think they need to be....but thats my "opinion" and I imagine he would respect my "opinion" on it, as much as I respect his or anyone else who feeds on a more aggressive schedule than some...FWIW my hatchlings eat every 7 days, because that has worked for me in the five years I've kept corns...In regards to "but I'll keep my corns on a more natural and healthy growth cycle"...Nothing we are doing here keeping corn snakes has ANY semblance to a normal corn's life cycle...

Not trying to bust your 'nads, Duff, but there are "friendlier" ways to voice an "opinion" :eek1:

05 hypo male: 14 gms
05 bloodred het hypo: 21 gms

both are from last summer

 

[Duff]

Ouch. Bitter much?

I'm not the least bit bitter. And pretty low of you to think that my concern over such an aggresive feeding schedule would come out of jealously. Plain and simple, according to the experts, it's not a good idea. And if you read the whole thread here, he even admits that he has regurges after a few multi-item feedings, going so far as to say they're probably backed up.

For a couple of my '05s, there was a period of time when they would take double-pinks for three or four feedings without a problem, then puke on the next feeding. This would be a cyclical thing. When I looked at my records, the best way I could describe it was that they were getting "backed up."

Tell me how this could be even remotely healthy or in the best interest of the snake? :shrugs:

 

[Preita]

And pretty low of you to think that my concern over such an aggresive feeding schedule would come out of jealously.

I never once thought that you were jealous. The way it was stated sounded bitter. When I read it it just sounded like an angry snap thats all.

Plain and simple, according to the experts, it's not a good idea. :

I agree that feeding that often is not what I do with my own snakes. I was on a 5 day schedual until I bumped up in size and now I'm on 7. But I'm not going to attack someone based on it with out seeing concrete evidence that it will shorten their life span or endanger their health. I just don't know enough about the practice to judge.

And if you read the whole thread here, he even admits that he has regurges after a few multi-item feedings, going so far as to say they're probably backed up.
Tell me how this could be even remotely healthy or in the best interest of the snake? :shrugs:

I think he was refering to good record keeping & I'm pretty sure he probably corrected that problem. (I'm assuming he would, but I don't know). And just because you have to poo doesn't mean your not hungry is all I'm saying.

 

[ultimuttone]

And just because you have to poo doesn't mean your not hungry is all I'm saying.

:-offtopic I just had to let you know that last statement literally had me in tears laughing. I am not totally sure why...but I think this thread needed the levity anyway, so good job Preita :grin01:

 

[Roy Munson]

And everyone thinks it's cool how fast your corns grow?? From my past reading experience here, power feeding (yes, that's what the above is describing) has never been accepted, but guess once you get in good with everyone, you can do whatever you want without anyone saying anything.

This seems like an unnecessary attack on me, and on the other members of this site. I fully expected some negative responses-- I didn't think I had a pass because I'm "in good" here. And obviously I'm not "in good with everyone"-- you said something, didn't you? Ease up.

Hope you're at least gonna be apologetic to your breeding slaves down the road when they run down early from being pumped full while young. If you're that impatient, then maybe you should just find some adults instead of buying hatchlings and racing them up to weight.

Breeding slaves? You have no idea what my plans are. I'm not trying to get my '05s up to weight for '07. I don't have any plans to breed any of my '05s until '08. If some of my '05s are ready in '07, maybe I'll breed them. I won't be brumating them next year, at any rate. I already stated that I only feed at the 3-day rate when they're on pinks. I should have specified that the day-old f/t pinks I get are very small. So by your standards, they are only "power-fed" for a very short period of time. Once they are on fuzzies, they go to a 6-day schedule until they reach adult weight. Maybe you didn't read that the first time I posted it. Most of my hatchlings were on fuzzies within 3 months of delivery to me-- many sooner. So if you think 3 months of aggressive initial feeding means that I'm an evil, slave-driving, power-feeder who would risk his snakes' health to make some quick bucks, I guess I can't do much to change your mind. But really think about this, and think about the assumptions you make before you post them.

To each his own, but I'll keep my corns on a more natural and healthy growth cycle and wait for them to be ready for breeding, not push them to fit MY schedule.

I'll do that too. I wonder if you've researched snakes' natural growth patterns as much as I have. I've said it here a dozen times at least: my snakes are cherished pets. This takes precedence over their value as breeders. If you can't take my word on this, there's not much I can do about that.

 

[Roy Munson]

For a couple of my '05s, there was a period of time when they would take double-pinks for three or four feedings without a problem, then puke on the next feeding. This would be a cyclical thing. When I looked at my records, the best way I could describe it was that they were getting "backed up."

Tell me how this could be even remotely healthy or in the best interest of the snake?

Tell me how this could be even remotely healthy or in the best interest of the snake? :shrugs:

You left out the part where I specified that these couple of hatchlings were problematic. I left out the part where I should have said that I saw only 2 cycles of this (with a 10-day post-regurge wait in between) before I changed my prey type/number and schedule for these problem hatchlings. For the record, these two hatchlings really turned around, and they have been eating fuzzies on a very reasonable 6-day schedule for some time now. Can I answer any other questions for you? I know you're an expert, but maybe you should consult Kathy's manual about hatchling feeding. Maybe you should PM her and tell her that her info is wrong.

 

[Preita]

:-offtopic I just had to let you know that last statement literally had me in tears laughing. I am not totally sure why...but I think this thread needed the levity anyway, so good job Preita :grin01:

lol my husband doesn't think I ever try to be funny, I'm just really super honest at odd times lol

But it's TRUE

 

[Taceas]

Psst Preita...I think she's just mad cause Dean bought another Plasma corn.

Personally, I do think Dean's feeding schedule is a bit extreme. Do I think its power feeding? Sure. But like Chris said, its my "opinion".

There's also some lunatic in the Photo Gallery who calls cohabitation of snakes a "rare artform", it'll be a rare artform when one eats the other. I have my opinions on such practices that are less than savory. But ya know what, I do manage to keep myself either A) Quiet or B) Polite, neither of which you were. And for that, I think you owe some apologies.

Does it annoy/anger me that he's being a tad bit excessive? Of course it does. I hate to see other animals subjected to the weird habits of their owners. Id est, I don't declaw my cats as I feel its a cruel practice. Which you do, if memory serves me right. But yet feeding a snake a tad too much is inherently wrong? If you don't want clawed furniture, don't get a cat. But don't artificially alter the cat to suit your life. Pure and simple. If you don't agree with the way he does his snake husbandry, that's fine, express your opinions in a little bit more of a mature manner. I don't agree with your fascination with having a claw-less cat, but you don't see me getting all bent out of shape about it.

And to add, most of us did not know how extreme his feeding schedule was when we're commenting about his huge snakes, because I can't for once remember him ever mentioning his feeding strategy in depth. At least he's feeding his snakes and adoring them and caring for them which is more than some people do that I've seen.

Dean is not in any clique around here, there never was a clique the last time I checked (but its funny how those on the fringe always accuse everyone of being in one). He's enthusiastic about his snakes, he's eager to get them growing and breeding, we ALL have those dreams and desires. I just prefer to take the conservative approach and not risk any unknown variables in getting there.

Even though my own hatchlings are pathetically small compared to some of these people's, I am damned proud of how they're turning out. Truth be told, they are larger than any hatchling I've ever bought from another person to date. So for that I am happy.

 

[Preita]

Psst Preita...I think she's just mad cause Dean bought another Plasma corn.

lol Heck I'm jealous!

There's also some lunatic in the Photo Gallery who calls cohabitation of snakes a "rare artform", it'll be a rare artform when one eats the other.

Was that the same guy that basically stated that Europeans are better herpers than the americans? You know if they take care of their snakes like they do their teeth I don't want any part of that

Even though my own hatchlings are pathetically small compared to some of these people's, I am damned proud of how they're turning out. Truth be told, they are larger than any hatchling I've ever bought from another person to date. So for that I am happy.

Mine are small too lol but up to two pinkies I don't feed agressively but I don't know enough about it to judge so I keep my lippers zipped (which is a HUGE accomplishment for me :cheers: )

(I do "alter" my cats lol they have all been neutered because my three boys were having dominance issues ::wink wink:: and that's just embarrassing)

 

[Roy Munson]

Some stats to put some perspective on things:

27 Corns
2 Emoryi
1 Kingsnake

Snakes in bru (non-feeding): 4
Snakes on 7-Day feedings (non-bru'd, sub-breeding-weight adults): 3
Snakes on 6-Day feedings (all '05s): 21
Snakes on 3-Day or 4-Day feedings: 2

I respect the opinions of all, but I do not consider myself a power-feeder. I think these stats support this. And for the record, I have outlined my feeding schedule a number of times here. I believe in getting my corns off nutritionally negligible pinks and onto fat fuzzies asap. It's a critical growth period for them in the wild, and I have no ethical qualms about simulating this in captivity. I think it's completely natural AND healthy.