SnakeAround
Formerly Blutengel
Amazing animal! Out of my price range though for sure for a while...
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Palmetto Heritable
- Thread starter Camby
- Start date
Nanci
Alien Lover
Well, I think pattern flecks on red and purple snakes would be...different!
And look at how stripe affects some genes unpredictably, eg sunkissed. You never know what new, different look might turn up!
And we don't even know when palmetto is combined with any color gene, which of palmetto's components, color flecks or white background, will carry through. I think it will be interesting to find out!
And look at how stripe affects some genes unpredictably, eg sunkissed. You never know what new, different look might turn up!
And we don't even know when palmetto is combined with any color gene, which of palmetto's components, color flecks or white background, will carry through. I think it will be interesting to find out!
kgmax1228
New member
BloodyBaroness
Captain Titsworth
4k for a new recessive morph? Sure! If my ball pythons produce like they should next year, I will absolutely look into getting one.
4k is much better than I expected on pricing.
Camby
He will join us or die
Exactly, at this early stage, we have no idea so why not try and see. I can't see not making the cross based on 5 hatchlings in the first ever production. Similarly, I have said many times I personally don't understand why people want to produce a bloodred tessera, BUT, I have also stated that I may be completely wrong, it may turn out to be something extremely cool. So why not at least try it. If it doesn't change anything but eye color and flecks...well, it's better than a stick in the eye right?
I don't see anything extremely different about the standard cinders or caramel peppermints, the caramel pepermints look alot like a snow so far, BUT, I am sure not everyone has my taste and eyes and that morph combo is likely someone elses favorite look. So why not make that combo.
dc
Naagas
Deserae :)
I am seriously considering getting one, depending on how this breeding season turns out.
Plus, anybody who buys will make their money back (assuming no tragedies). We saw that with those who spent 2k on a Tessera.
I think Don is being smart with the market on these.
4k isn't horribly expensive... I've seen corns sell for nearly that much for a new morph combo. I think I saw a Sunkissed Lavender Motley or the like sell for nearly that much. I could be wrong.
Plus, anybody who buys will make their money back (assuming no tragedies). We saw that with those who spent 2k on a Tessera.
I think Don is being smart with the market on these.
4k isn't horribly expensive... I've seen corns sell for nearly that much for a new morph combo. I think I saw a Sunkissed Lavender Motley or the like sell for nearly that much. I could be wrong.
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Some color morphs would probably be interesting if the Palmetto is mostly white with some color flecks (anery, amel and butter might be interesting in flecks on a white), but if there is variation as to the amount of flecking between individuals, many other color morphs would be interesting as well as you would see more of the color. It's still too early in the game to make final judgements as to all the possibilities.
Reptilekyle64
New member
SODERBERGD
Active member
Thanks, Walter
I can always count on Walter to point out potential trait impossibilities (all you can change is eye color in these) about a new mutation that he does not own. Thanks for being you, Walter. Don’t ever change! lol.
I don't speak BALL, so I don't know which two ball pythons are bred together to produce all white ones, but who saw that coming since neither genetic contributors were white in appearance? I think there are many ball python mutations that do that. They unexpectedly alter phenotypes in subsequent compound filial products. Hence, as someone else said (sorry I don't recall whom), we'll know what is possible in Palmetto compounds only when we fiddle with their genetics.
You probably all know the history of the Palmetto. Bill Love has intimate details of its origins - as do others - but in honoring the wishes of the owner of the property where he was discovered (they don't want headlights in their house windows every night from road cruisers), details of the exact locality will not be revealed. Suffice to say, this snake was captured in the wild. It is not a man-made creation, so we don't know its' parents. Likewise, there are no physical traits that inherently point to it being a Natural hybrid, so I'm grateful that members of this particular forum have largely not questioned its bazaar mutational phenotype.
The three females that graced me with eggs this year (bred back to their Palmetto father) are het for their mother’s mutations, Amel and possibly Caramel – since Mom was an Amel het Caramel. Of course, I don’t expect any F2s from the next two clutches yet to hatch this year to render anything other than what I’m seeing in this first brood; normal corn and Palmetto phenotypes. Next year, I will be breeding those three F2 sisters to their brothers, to see if their genotypes can be exhibited in the subsequently new generation phenotypes. Naturally, the albino-types will have red eyes, so Walter is right about that. Also, to Walter’s credit, there will be little or no visual modifications in pseudo-pattern fragments, since there are so darned few of them and they are so small and scattered. Nobody can know if it will be possible to alter the size of these color fragments, but even if we can’t increase their size, locations, and frequencies, surely the non-red color flecks seen now will be transformed to ALL red ones in the double mutants. Likewise, we can presume (but can’t know for sure) that since Butter Mutants convert all markings to yellow, Butter Palmettos should have only one color scattered through their otherwise white bodies; yellow. Anery = black, caramel = gold/brown, ghost = gray, and so on. I see no reason to presume that the myriad colors now seen in the only adult Palmetto will mask the affects of color mutations like Amel, Anery, Caramel, etc. in subsequent color compounds. Will they dramatically alter the general phenotype? Nope. There is so little color on these gems, it presumably will not be possible to make Walt Disney proud of Palmettos, but as we all know, polygenic trait modifiers can have profound impact on common or mutant phenotypes. There are all white Dalmatian dogs that were selectively bred to reduce black markings, so selective breeding may well increase the size, frequency, and colors of the anomalous color splashes and drips seen in this otherwise leucistic-looking mutation.
I’ll follow this email with one that includes pictures of non mutant siblings, and will also snap some shots of the F1 hets from last year’s pairings (Palmetto X Ghost, Snow, Blizzard, etc.). In keeping with our policy not to flood markets with excessive inventory, we kept back only 2.2 from each of those out-pairings.
The only reason I can think of for asking to see the non-mutants is for potential exhibition of hybrid markers. I can’t blame people for wondering how in the world this mutant came to be, so I understand my obligation to show ALL the progeny of this unusual mutation.
I can always count on Walter to point out potential trait impossibilities (all you can change is eye color in these) about a new mutation that he does not own. Thanks for being you, Walter. Don’t ever change! lol.
I don't speak BALL, so I don't know which two ball pythons are bred together to produce all white ones, but who saw that coming since neither genetic contributors were white in appearance? I think there are many ball python mutations that do that. They unexpectedly alter phenotypes in subsequent compound filial products. Hence, as someone else said (sorry I don't recall whom), we'll know what is possible in Palmetto compounds only when we fiddle with their genetics.
You probably all know the history of the Palmetto. Bill Love has intimate details of its origins - as do others - but in honoring the wishes of the owner of the property where he was discovered (they don't want headlights in their house windows every night from road cruisers), details of the exact locality will not be revealed. Suffice to say, this snake was captured in the wild. It is not a man-made creation, so we don't know its' parents. Likewise, there are no physical traits that inherently point to it being a Natural hybrid, so I'm grateful that members of this particular forum have largely not questioned its bazaar mutational phenotype.
The three females that graced me with eggs this year (bred back to their Palmetto father) are het for their mother’s mutations, Amel and possibly Caramel – since Mom was an Amel het Caramel. Of course, I don’t expect any F2s from the next two clutches yet to hatch this year to render anything other than what I’m seeing in this first brood; normal corn and Palmetto phenotypes. Next year, I will be breeding those three F2 sisters to their brothers, to see if their genotypes can be exhibited in the subsequently new generation phenotypes. Naturally, the albino-types will have red eyes, so Walter is right about that. Also, to Walter’s credit, there will be little or no visual modifications in pseudo-pattern fragments, since there are so darned few of them and they are so small and scattered. Nobody can know if it will be possible to alter the size of these color fragments, but even if we can’t increase their size, locations, and frequencies, surely the non-red color flecks seen now will be transformed to ALL red ones in the double mutants. Likewise, we can presume (but can’t know for sure) that since Butter Mutants convert all markings to yellow, Butter Palmettos should have only one color scattered through their otherwise white bodies; yellow. Anery = black, caramel = gold/brown, ghost = gray, and so on. I see no reason to presume that the myriad colors now seen in the only adult Palmetto will mask the affects of color mutations like Amel, Anery, Caramel, etc. in subsequent color compounds. Will they dramatically alter the general phenotype? Nope. There is so little color on these gems, it presumably will not be possible to make Walt Disney proud of Palmettos, but as we all know, polygenic trait modifiers can have profound impact on common or mutant phenotypes. There are all white Dalmatian dogs that were selectively bred to reduce black markings, so selective breeding may well increase the size, frequency, and colors of the anomalous color splashes and drips seen in this otherwise leucistic-looking mutation.
I’ll follow this email with one that includes pictures of non mutant siblings, and will also snap some shots of the F1 hets from last year’s pairings (Palmetto X Ghost, Snow, Blizzard, etc.). In keeping with our policy not to flood markets with excessive inventory, we kept back only 2.2 from each of those out-pairings.
The only reason I can think of for asking to see the non-mutants is for potential exhibition of hybrid markers. I can’t blame people for wondering how in the world this mutant came to be, so I understand my obligation to show ALL the progeny of this unusual mutation.
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I don't know, Walt, I think there is a LOT of potential there. Imagine, for instance, a Lavender covered in multicolored flecks over the entire body....
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Dreamsnake
New member
I think they are just amazing. It saddens me to think of how many other outstanding wild breed snake mutations that ended up with their heads cut off by their discoverers.
SODERBERGD
Active member
Awesome Lavender, RZ . . . & . . .
DUHHH, and cha-ching. Yeah, Rich, that'd be super ! ! !
Here pix of the new F2s (Palmetto x F1 daughter) that hatched a few days ago, and three top shots of 2010 F1s from Palmetto x different non-Palmetto corn mutants. Belly pix will follow this posting.
DUHHH, and cha-ching. Yeah, Rich, that'd be super ! ! !
Here pix of the new F2s (Palmetto x F1 daughter) that hatched a few days ago, and three top shots of 2010 F1s from Palmetto x different non-Palmetto corn mutants. Belly pix will follow this posting.
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SODERBERGD
Active member
Suzy
Shazoooooo!
This is definitely exciting for me to see. I'll probably never work with Palmetto Corns, or if I do, it will be a long time from now. However, I can't wait to see the possibilities of this gene in the future. I love the fact that it's basically a patternless Corn (with a few freckles) without adding the Stripe or Motley to the mix. I'm curious to see how different genes affect it, such as Motley and Stripe, Tessera, Diffuse, and Sunkissed.
Thank you Don, for sharing pictures and information on this morph. It's great to see!
Thank you Don, for sharing pictures and information on this morph. It's great to see!
Jim Godfrey
Not In The Click
YEEEEEE HAAAAAAA!
WingedSweetheart
New member
I would love to own one of those. I'd never be able to afford one. At least not in the near future. But they are some strange and wonderful snakes!
