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How do you feel about God.
- Thread starter Holly12
- Start date
rich333
They Are Coming!!!
Christen,
True I suppose.
More likely, People...Governments in particular, Created God to control the
populations.
"Be Good, Or Else" kinda thing.
religion gave the Poor man something to believe in, while He killed himself
working for "The Man".
captainjack0000
Student
It may have come across that way but let me assure you that was not my intention. There is some assumption that any aliens that could communicate with us are at least as technologically advanced as we are today. But who knows. Maybe there are some single celled organisms roaming around somewhere in the universe.
captainjack0000
Student
Humans and Apes
We actually came from fish. This is (as was my first post) sourced from a book called "The Magic of Reality". Here is the thought experiment. Imagine a photo of yourself. Now imagine a photo of your dad (or mom). And now imagine your grandfather (or grandmother). Continue this thought experiment all the way through your great-grandfather, then your great-great, and so on down the line. Indeed, do this for 185 million generations. It is hard to imagine. The book puts this into perspective. If each picture was a normal postcard, it would tower 220,000 feet high (or if you tipped it on its side, about 40 miles long).
So if you go back to the first postcard photo, 185 million generations ago, it looks like a fish. And if you were take stroll along your 40 miles of postcards, each photo you pull out would look very similar to the photos directly in front of it or behind it. The changes across those 40 miles of postcards are very, very gradual.
The book uses another example to bring to light these gradual changes. When did you stop being a baby? Or when did you become a child or middle-aged? The changes from baby to adult, or even from adult to old person are so gradual we can't really pin down when the change happened, but we don't dispute that at some point in our life, we looked radically different than we do now. But a picture of me yesterday looks about the same as a picture of me will look if I take it tomorrow or even next week.
The book goes on to say that because we're talking about 185 million generations, even going back 10,000 years to about your 400-greats-grandfather, you wouldn't notice any real difference. He would look human. I believe the anatomically similar human didn't appear on Earth until about 200,000 years ago, but again, we can't really say exactly when it happened because it was a gradual change.
If you go back 4,000 greats, you might see a slight change, and if you go back 50,000 greats, you would see enough of a change that we would call it a different species - Homo erectus.
Now whether or not you want to say God, aliens, or Joe Pesci did this doesn't really matter. However, there is pretty strong evidence to suggest that all living creatures on Earth are related to one another - DNA. The same mechanism that makes humans humans and birds birds and snakes snakes is DNA. Our DNA is different, but the fact that a single underlying mechanism is at work suggests that all living creatures on Earth are related. The degree of relation is what is different.
So did we evolve from monkeys? Well no, not the monkeys you see at the zoo. Those monkeys are on Earth today so we could not have evolved from them because they've had exactly the same amount of time to evolve as us. We do however share a common ancestor with them somewhere along our 40 miles of postcards. And that ancestor might look something like a monkey.
We actually came from fish. This is (as was my first post) sourced from a book called "The Magic of Reality". Here is the thought experiment. Imagine a photo of yourself. Now imagine a photo of your dad (or mom). And now imagine your grandfather (or grandmother). Continue this thought experiment all the way through your great-grandfather, then your great-great, and so on down the line. Indeed, do this for 185 million generations. It is hard to imagine. The book puts this into perspective. If each picture was a normal postcard, it would tower 220,000 feet high (or if you tipped it on its side, about 40 miles long).
So if you go back to the first postcard photo, 185 million generations ago, it looks like a fish. And if you were take stroll along your 40 miles of postcards, each photo you pull out would look very similar to the photos directly in front of it or behind it. The changes across those 40 miles of postcards are very, very gradual.
The book uses another example to bring to light these gradual changes. When did you stop being a baby? Or when did you become a child or middle-aged? The changes from baby to adult, or even from adult to old person are so gradual we can't really pin down when the change happened, but we don't dispute that at some point in our life, we looked radically different than we do now. But a picture of me yesterday looks about the same as a picture of me will look if I take it tomorrow or even next week.
The book goes on to say that because we're talking about 185 million generations, even going back 10,000 years to about your 400-greats-grandfather, you wouldn't notice any real difference. He would look human. I believe the anatomically similar human didn't appear on Earth until about 200,000 years ago, but again, we can't really say exactly when it happened because it was a gradual change.
If you go back 4,000 greats, you might see a slight change, and if you go back 50,000 greats, you would see enough of a change that we would call it a different species - Homo erectus.
Now whether or not you want to say God, aliens, or Joe Pesci did this doesn't really matter. However, there is pretty strong evidence to suggest that all living creatures on Earth are related to one another - DNA. The same mechanism that makes humans humans and birds birds and snakes snakes is DNA. Our DNA is different, but the fact that a single underlying mechanism is at work suggests that all living creatures on Earth are related. The degree of relation is what is different.
So did we evolve from monkeys? Well no, not the monkeys you see at the zoo. Those monkeys are on Earth today so we could not have evolved from them because they've had exactly the same amount of time to evolve as us. We do however share a common ancestor with them somewhere along our 40 miles of postcards. And that ancestor might look something like a monkey.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Humans Apes and cells
Humans are actually still classified as apes. Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo florensis, etc. came before us and other species of Homo had fire, toolsl, etc. We have never evolved past the point of being an ape. We evolved from single celled organisms as did all multicellular life on this planet.
Humans are actually still classified as apes. Homo erectus, Homo habilis, Homo florensis, etc. came before us and other species of Homo had fire, toolsl, etc. We have never evolved past the point of being an ape. We evolved from single celled organisms as did all multicellular life on this planet.
NiklasTyreso
New member
It matters to many people.
I think evolusion was, and prabably are, the tool of the creator.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
Its fine to think such thoughts and many people have their own creation stories, but without science to back up these claims they are simply stories.
Mark Dwight
New member
True. Homo sapiens are apes. There is no real difference between us and any other ape species. The humans, bonobos and chimps are extremely closely related. And up until about 40 or 50 thousand years ago the planet had two species of humans.
captainjack0000
Student
Of course it does! But for the purposes of my statement it did not.
And yes we are apes. We're part of the great apes. (humans, bonobos, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans)
As far as I can remember, we're apes, and part of the larger group primates. But we're not monkeys. Monkeys are primates too however.
rich333
They Are Coming!!!
Or maybe An Alien?
And I would imagine, That if Alien Life is ever discovered, And if we..the commoners, are ever told about them, Their DNA is Probably pretty close to our own. being that, Everything is made of "Stardust". So it stands to reason, that EVERYTHING in the known universe is somehow related.
I found some of the perspectives presented in this video rather intriguing....
Seriously, I don't believe that anyone can SERIOUSLY look around at this planet we live on with the brain unfettered with the biased views drummed into our heads by our educational system and not come to the conclusion that we don't have NEARLY the full picture of our history. The is evidence of giant craters made by impacts from celestial objects. Our planet wobbles like it has been struck with something quite recent in geological scales. There are countless ruins scattered throughout the world that the construction of which cannot be adequately explained using modern technology as a guide. Entire civilizations have vanished with barely a trace nor reasonable explanation of why. The jump from ape to humankind is the equivalent of a black box drawn into a schematic with the label "and a miracle happens" to explain the process.
It's like we are being fed the "kiddie" PG-13 version of the truth about this planet we live on and who WE are as a race.
Seriously, I don't believe that anyone can SERIOUSLY look around at this planet we live on with the brain unfettered with the biased views drummed into our heads by our educational system and not come to the conclusion that we don't have NEARLY the full picture of our history. The is evidence of giant craters made by impacts from celestial objects. Our planet wobbles like it has been struck with something quite recent in geological scales. There are countless ruins scattered throughout the world that the construction of which cannot be adequately explained using modern technology as a guide. Entire civilizations have vanished with barely a trace nor reasonable explanation of why. The jump from ape to humankind is the equivalent of a black box drawn into a schematic with the label "and a miracle happens" to explain the process.
It's like we are being fed the "kiddie" PG-13 version of the truth about this planet we live on and who WE are as a race.
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
Very well put Rich...
As far as us being classified with apes. That whole classification is man made. It changes as well.
As far as us being classified with apes. That whole classification is man made. It changes as well.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
That is the beauty of human imagination. We can imagine anything. We can also believe anything. I once believed that if I stepped on a crack I would break my moms back. I cried when I stepped on a crack one day and my mom was late to pick me up. I genuinely believed I had broken her back until she arrived safe and sound.
I once believed that yuwipi medicine men really could make it rain inside a room and spirits made the rattles fly around the room lighting up the room with the spirits glow that inhabited them. Until I learned that it was a piezo electric charge and reproduced the same on my own.
I once believed in many things. Then, I started to examine all the various beliefs in the world. How so many beliefs contradicted each other and I started to examine the attrocities that we as humans did to ourselves and to others who followed some of these beliefs. I studied how even buddhists were not without war or killing. I studied how someones belief could be so strong that it could literally kill them. I realized that all of these beliefs could not all be right when so many of them contradicted each other. I read the bible and saw how the bible made laws for how to treat slaves, how a raped women should marry her rapist... and so many other attrocities I just never realized and I wondered and then I realized that their are many things we may never know, but to believe something is a certain way just because we are told that it is so is not for me.
I realized that people don't need gods to know that killing another person is wrong, but they do use gods to justify killing another, suicide bombings, witch hunts, subjugating others, etc. I could not fathom a god who made rules on how to treat slave, rape, and other such victims so poorly. I could not imagine a god who would treat his children so poorly as to sentence them to burn in hell for an eternity simply for not believing in him. I could never punish my children so harshly simply for not believing in me. I could not fathom such a heartless, unthinking god... who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient. I examined many cultures beliefs and realized that they were all standing on the same equal footing in that all the stories no matter how much they differed all had followers claiming and believing their stories were true based on stories... there was no proof. Those beliefs had as much weight as my belief that I had broken my mothers back so many years ago by stepping on a crack. It honestly felt good to let go of god and simply be good for the sake of being good. It makes one feel good to volunteer to clean up roads, feed the homeless, etc. so that is why I do those things. I don't do them because I think there is some place bad I may go if I don't or some place good I will go if I do. I do good deeds simply because I feel good when I do them. If there is a god, unicorn, dragon, demons, etc... and they judge that I need to spend an eternity in hell for not believing in them... they are not being good parents... much less good mythological stories to pass on from one generation to another.
captainjack0000
Student
I don't have a black box in my understanding....
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
There has been no jump from apes to humans. We are still apes....
I don't need miracles to explain what I don't know yet. But, supposing a miracle did happen... who's miracle story are you to believe and why? What piece of evidence pushed you towards that creation story versus another cultures creation story? The sad fact is that many of us simply believe the creation story that was passed on to us by our ancestors without ever truly understanding or evaluating other cultures creation stories with our own cultures. If we applied the same logic that we use to examine other cultures beliefs, creation stories, etc. to our own where would we stand?
I don't need miracles to explain what I don't know yet. But, supposing a miracle did happen... who's miracle story are you to believe and why? What piece of evidence pushed you towards that creation story versus another cultures creation story? The sad fact is that many of us simply believe the creation story that was passed on to us by our ancestors without ever truly understanding or evaluating other cultures creation stories with our own cultures. If we applied the same logic that we use to examine other cultures beliefs, creation stories, etc. to our own where would we stand?
Mark Dwight
New member
So you think the DNA relationships are meaningless and a man made classification? :roflmao:
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
Laugh all you want. They are still experimenting with DNA. And animals classifications change from time to time.
beautifullywild77
Go Penguins!!!
Plus, the whole classification system is man made. Some human sat down one day and decided to classify all animals. Grouping them together.
Shiari
Blutterer
Rich, I respect you so much. PLEASE tell me you did not just make the "If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes" argument.
My phrasing was poor in that we evolved from the same ancestor as the apes. It's visible in the layout of our facial features, our limbs, and our *hands* that we ourselves are primates.
Asking why there are still apes but no other hominids is a little like asking why are there still tigers *and* lions but saber toothed cats are extinct.
In this case though, part of the answer is fairly simple. Humans, in all their forms, have been invasive species. Homo sapiens in particular is insular and war-like. Beyond that, disease, rapid climate change and all sorts of other things can have an impact. Modern humans ourselves once had a huge drop in population that came close to wiping us out. Cheetahs, which were plentiful a few hundred years ago are so genetically related that it's speculated the population may have dropped to as low as one female and her litter. They're all basically 'twins'.
The majority of species that have ever existed have gone extinct. But to assuage your worry about lack of other hominids, if Homo florensis does prove out to a new 'species' as it is appearing it will, then there was another hominid around as recently as 1800 years ago.
Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
It is true. Man continues to change classifications from time to time based on new evidence. This doesn't diminish the fact that we share many things in common with our relatives and it doesn't diminish the fact that we all evolved from single celled organisms. Forget our relationship to other apes which any school child can see that we hold many similarities with... we are all related as we all evolved from single cells. Now, to me that is amazing. The degree of relatedness may always be subject to debate as knew information is discovered or may be as yet uncovered.