Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns

[Carpe Serpentis]

So who is paying for the thousands of dollars worth of DNA profiling required to accomplish that? Also who is paying for registry to be built and maintained?

I thought there was already a registry built and being maintained?

 

[beautifullywild77]

I thought there was already a registry built and being maintained?

Not everyone is registered and even those that have been proven untrustworthy are registered. So it does nothing.

 

[bitsy]

I thought there was already a registry built and being maintained?

The ACR isn't a repository of DNA information about breeding Corns. It's effectively a tool which allows you to trace bloodlines from information provided by breeders.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

If designed to assure hybrid-free bloodlines, standards based on trust aren't worth the paper they're written on.

What if a reputable breeder has a Butter which they earnestly believe to be pure, but they don't realise that it's derived from Ultra bloodlines, which have the suspicion of hybrid hanging over them? That breeder could register it as a standard pure Corn in all good faith, and everyone would believe them.

The only way of proving a Corn "pure", is to run a full DNA sequence (and that assumes the existence of a DNA library for other snake species as comparators to identify hybrid components). Standards in the way you're proposing, are pointless for that. Standards in this situation can only effectively be used to set visual traits and desirable physical attributes which can be observed and/or measured.

I like how you think and I agree with you. If designed to assure hybrid-free bloodlines, standards based on trust aren't worth the paper they're written on.

 

[MysticExotics]

I thought there was already a registry built and being maintained?

There's no specific DNA profiling in the ACR.

Edit to add: Bitsy beat me to it. LOL

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

The ACR isn't a repository of DNA information about breeding Corns. It's effectively a tool which allows you to trace bloodlines from information provided by breeders.

Exactly and a dna test would not supplant that valuable information. It merely adds credibility to the breeders assumption that the hatchling produced and used in a further breeding was as he/she thought it was.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Again, where is that money coming from?

I doubt even Don S. Joe P. or Sean at VMS could afford to have even 5% of their animals tested for a full DNA map. A full DNA map is what is required for the things you are talking about.

 

[bitsy]

Exactly and a dna test would not supplant that valuable information. It merely adds credibility to the breeders assumption that the hatchling produced and used in a further breeding was as he/she thought it was.

But again, who is going to pay for this DNA testing? As has been pointed out, it's much more involved and costly than paternity testing. In fact if you're happy to rely on it, the ACR does away for the need for paternity testing anyway as you can already trace bloodlines through it. The trick is proving the snakes on the registry are "pure" to begin with, which has nothing to do with paternity.

And not every breeder uses the ACR as it involves a cost.

There's a theme emerging here.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

There's a theme emerging here.

Money makes the world go round...

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I know. That was my point.

Tried to rep you on that one as I totally agree with your point.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

But again, who is going to pay for this DNA testing? As has been pointed out, it's much more involved and costly than paternity testing. In fact if you're happy to rely on it, the ACR does away for the need for paternity testing anyway as you can already trace bloodlines through it. The trick is proving the snakes on the registry are "pure" to begin with, which has nothing to do with paternity.

And not every breeder uses the ACR as it involves a cost.

There's a theme emerging here.

Tracing paternity through a registry that is not dna proven is only as valuable as the belief or hope that one has in the breeder of supplying factual information which things like retained semen from a previous attempt, unscrupulous breeder, or simply parthenogenesis might make invalid. Dna testing or paternity testing simply adds the fact or proof of parentage to the registry. Dna testing for paternity does not weaken the registry, it merely adds scientific facts of paternity to the registry.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Not everyone is registered and even those that have been proven untrustworthy are registered. So it does nothing.

Again, this is my point on why dna testing for paternity might prove a boon. It eliminates the need for trust where it concerns the supposed parents being the actual parents. Note, it does not remove all of the need for trust, but it also makes it easier to feret out those who might have been dishonest if something odd pops up and can be traced back to another persons line beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[bitsy]

Tracing paternity through a registry that is not dna proven is only as valuable as the belief or hope that one has in the breeder of supplying factual information which things like retained semen from a previous attempt, unscrupulous breeder, or simply parthenogenesis might make invalid. Dna testing or paternity testing simply adds the fact or proof of parentage to the registry. Dna testing for paternity does not weaken the registry, it merely adds scientific facts of paternity to the registry.

People trust the ACR as much as they're going to. There's been no demand for scientific proof of what registered breeders are stating in their registrations.

To get back to the original point of this thread - ensuring the "purity" of Corn bloodlines - nothing will work without full DNA sequencing, which is expensive. And nobody is going to pay for it. And we don't even know whether it's technically feasible.

 

[dave partington]

At this point,
Is it even possible to create a DNA map with captive corns?
Even with something like a Landrace Lava, it's not a natural corn any longer.,.

 

[beautifullywild77]

But you would have to go back to the parents of those two snakes. Then go back to the parents of those 4 snakes and so on. Just because you do a paternity test, does not mean there is not a hybrid 5 or 6 generations back or even 2 generations back.

Do you see the flaw in your logic of it?

shonest if something odd pops up and can be traced back to another persons line beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Something odd could pop up from 6 generations back. Just like we have seen with hets, they don't always prove true the first couple breeding trails or generations.

 

[dave partington]

Is there a difference between the known origin of "X", and the true origin of "X"?

 

[beautifullywild77]

I will just keep buying from breeders I trust and leave it at that!

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I'll put it in a simpler way. Errors in paternity can reaspmably be expected happen to breeders at least once in their breeding career if that career is sufficiently long. These errors in paternity can be costly to a breeder. Even your local hospital is not without its errors and these errors can sometimes be deadly and who doesn't trust their local hospital to always do the right thing? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/hospital-staff-report-hospital-errors/story?id=15308019

 

[Chip]

Good lord. Are you SERIOUSLY saying there is a DNA test that can prove that a certain corn in my collection is pure? That is what Jkgeorge is asking.

I asked a this week ago. Why are we still asking CP the same question 15 different ways? I'm not sure Farmville wouldn't be a more productive use of time. /unsubscribe thread

 

[MysticExotics]

Not everyone is registered and even those that have been proven untrustworthy are registered. So it does nothing.

Good point.

Again, this is my point on why dna testing for paternity might prove a boon. It eliminates the need for trust where it concerns the supposed parents being the actual parents. Note, it does not remove all of the need for trust, but it also makes it easier to feret out those who might have been dishonest if something odd pops up and can be traced back to another persons line beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If I feel the need to request DNA proof that the babies are in fact from the parents the breeder claims they are, I won't buy from that breeder. Plain & simple.