Rumor I heard about Tesseras (sp?)

[Carinata]

Bloodred still uses one particular recessive gene to produce the trait, something that does not occur with the ratsnakes you mentioned. The reason why old school bloods were truly deserving of the bloodred name is because they were linebred so extensively and narrowly. They became "purebred" in a way, and outcrossing to other corns to make "mutts" is what reintroduced vigor in the gene pool, because it was now broader.

Very true. But they are outcrossed as well. The gene could have come from a glades or from the corn. If you breed certain albinos of X species to another albino of Y species. You may get normals becasue they genes are not compatible.

 

[Shiari]

Very true. But they are outcrossed as well. The gene could have come from a glades or from the corn. If you breed certain albinos of X species to another albino of Y species. You may get normals becasue they genes are not compatible.

That does not explain the entirely recessive and singular nature of the gene as the snakes you mentioned do not use a single recessive gene to create their pattern.

 

[Carinata]

So which of those have you personally noticed in tessera, terazzo, cinder, sunkissed, bloodred, ect?

Like I said. Rich explained cinder, I read teh tessera story.
Sunkissed has an abberent pattern. They ALSO show much mroe aggression as opposed to normla corns. What else is more aggressive than corns? Rat snakes of the Sobsoletus. Bloodreds; clear belly, lateral stripes, head pattern, and color change.

 

[diamondlil]

Well................aren't the 'bloodred' and diffusion from different genes? So you can get really good diffusion without the deep rich colour, and vice-versa? If it's just a simple recessive, why are 'blood caramels' so hard to find with good diffusion? Fires very often show distinct saddles rather than solid colouring?

 

[Carinata]

That does not explain the entirely recessive and singular nature of the gene as the snakes you mentioned do not use a single recessive gene to create their pattern.

What i am saying is.
X morph Glades Rat X Corn
Offspring; Glades X Corn 100% het X
F2; Glades X Corn, Xgene Glades X corn.
F3; Xgene glade X corn X corn
See hwo if one gene from the glades go introduced there could be a new gene introduced.

 

[Carinata]

Well................aren't the 'bloodred' and diffusion from different genes? So you can get really good diffusion without the deep rich colour, and vice-versa? If it's just a simple recessive, why are 'blood caramels' so hard to find with good diffusion? Fires very often show distinct saddles rather than solid colouring?

Diffuesion is blood but blood is a line bred diffused.

 

[starsevol]

Well................aren't the 'bloodred' and diffusion from different genes? So you can get really good diffusion without the deep rich colour, and vice-versa? If it's just a simple recessive, why are 'blood caramels' so hard to find with good diffusion? Fires very often show distinct saddles rather than solid colouring?

Actually J9, I could be wrong here, but I think they are the same gene. It is just that bloodreds show the red as a result of line breeding, as opposed to diffused which were the result of outcrossing bloodreds to other morphs....

 

[Carinata]

Look I'm loosing this "battle". Mike can you give me some hybrid markers? Shiari, I said some things in my post I really did not intend. I never ment anyone to be called a liar. Maybe I am misinformed I am just staing some things I and several herpers have seen.

 

[torsten]

Like I said. Rich explained cinder, I read teh tessera story.

Ok, So what are these "hybrid markers" on these?

Sunkissed has an abberent pattern. They ALSO show much mroe aggression as opposed to normla corns. What else is more aggressive than corns? Rat snakes of the Sobsoletus.

Afrocks can be quite aggressive as well... perhaps there is a link there...
Stripes, Motleys, Zagtec, Zigzag, Aztecs, Broadstripe, all of these can be called abberant, does that make all pattern morphs hybrids?

Bloodreds; clear belly, lateral stripes, head pattern, and color change.

Stripes, Motleys, and plenty of other all have or can have patternless bellies...
Stripes and motleys and most other morphs to some extent including normals have lateral stripes...
All morphs can have a patternless head, it's not a definite sign of bloodred...
All morphs change colour as they age...
Does that make pretty much EVERY corn morph a hybrid? It would seem so...

 

[Shiari]

Like I said. Rich explained cinder, I read teh tessera story.
Sunkissed has an abberent pattern. They ALSO show much mroe aggression as opposed to normla corns. What else is more aggressive than corns? Rat snakes of the Sobsoletus. Bloodreds; clear belly, lateral stripes, head pattern, and color change.

So... if aberrant pattern indicates hybrid, then all motleys and stripes are hybrids too? And aztecs and zigzags?

The nature of the sunkissed pattern is, once again, *recessive*. The "normal" coloration and pattern for a species is controlled by many genes. That's why if you breed a Miami to an Okeetee you get a huge range of offspring that can, and typically do, show influences from both. That's why we're able to create high pink snows and aneries, why okeetees have such huge borders and why Carol is able to develop wide bordered Miamis.

It's not a "hybrid marker" if a single recessive trait is causing ALL the "markers" you think you're seeing.

 

[Carinata]

Tortsten, I am saying that the origin of some of the genes may or may not have blood from other sources. Are corns not the whores of the snake world?

 

[Shiari]

Tortsten, I am saying that the origin of some of the genes may or may not have blood from other sources. Are corns not the whores of the snake world?

Wow. That's rather rude. And a bit of a copout.

 

[wade]

Shari, it think that horse is dead.

 

[Carinata]

Wow. That's rather rude. And a bit of a copout.

Well corns breed with most everything. Hybrids are created with ease. Whats to stop a corn in the wild if they can't find a mate?

 

[diamondlil]

Diffuesion is blood but blood is a line bred diffused.

But I'd contend that the expression of diffusion perhaps isn't a simple on/off single gene at work. Look at 'white-sided' granites. I've been reading about the breeding trials with pied sided, which is suggesting that no-pied expression snakes carrying the pied genes show a clear line of where the bottom of the saddles starts to diffuse.

 

[Shiari]

Shari, it think that horse is dead.

But Wade... I love that horse! It's been a really good horse! Surely if I just keep prodding he'll get up and we can ride off into the sunset as dramatic music rises...

 

[torsten]

Tortsten, I am saying that the origin of some of the genes may or may not have blood from other sources. Are corns not the whores of the snake world?

Are you incapable of spelling my name correctly? It's not exactly far to look to see it!

Anyway, more relevantly, Can you answer my qustion as to what these "Hybrid Markers" are that you say are visible in all these morphs rather than just referring to 'the "Hybrid Markers"'?

 

[Carinata]

But Wade... I love that horse! It's been a really good horse! Surely if I just keep prodding he'll get up and we can ride off into the sunset as dramatic music rises...

then I buck you off and eat some grass.

 

[Carinata]

Are you incapable of spelling my name correctly? It's not exactly far to look to see it!

Anyway, more relevantly, Can you answer my qustion as to what these "Hybrid Markers" are that you say are visible in all these morphs rather than just referring to 'the "Hybrid Markers"'?

Torsten, look through the thread I made a post about them.

 

[Carinata]

But I'd contend that the expression of diffusion perhaps isn't a simple on/off single gene at work. Look at 'white-sided' granites. I've been reading about the breeding trials with pied sided, which is suggesting that no-pied expression snakes carrying the pied genes show a clear line of where the bottom of the saddles starts to diffuse.

Very interesting Janine.