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Rumor I heard about Tesseras (sp?)

David, I will repeat my question, can you give some examples of hybrid markers? Do you know what one is? Or are you just repeating something someone else said? When in actuality you have no idea.

The moon is made of cheese, I heard an astronaut say it once, but I have no proof. See how that works?
 
This thread is just turning into a joke- a waste of time- there is NO evidence for his statements and just another one of those threads where people wanna sound like they know what they are talking about. Go ahead and keep on making false claims/statements- I'm retiring from this thread. Good luck in life...
 
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Shiari said:
I am not calling YOU a liar. I'm saying that the wording in your original paragraph means that you are, perhaps unintentionally, calling other people, including Kathy, liars.

If Kathy would never do that, then sunkissed CANNOT have hybrid markers. The two are linked. Either they are hybrids, and Kathy is deceitful, or they are NOT hybrids and Kathy is indeed the wonderful, honest and caring individual we all adore.

It's the same with Diffused. She helped spread that gene, helped name the bloody thing.

And you have not said what these supposed "markers" are. There's a HUGE amount of variation in the pattern of corns. My own Eliel is a rather odd looking ghost and has very small saddles. Is this a sign of being a hybrid? Do we get to plop Carol now next to Kathy?

Frankly, you are the one who needs to calm down. You made a very bold statement as absolute fact, we have refuted the possibility of several and now you're up in arms declaring that I've called you a liar when those words never left my fingertips.
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You know what? You need to back up. I am posting my thoughts like evey other person here does. I simply heard something. Kathy may not know if when the gene popped up it was involved with other snakes. I am not calling her a liar. You are jumping on me! I did not say they were fact! Hybrid MARKERS! Not hybrid! Maybe or maybe not. Bloodreds escpecially the older ones develope faint stripes down thier sides. They also change color from babie to adults and they have a clear belly. What else starts patterned, has no belly pattern, and developes lateral stripes..............Yellow and Everglades ratsnakes. So is it possible that before these animals were collected and found they bred with a yellow rat and then the babies went with corns? Diluting the Yellow rat influence. That also may explaing the original ferility and feeding issues.
 
mike17l said:
David, I will repeat my question, can you give some examples of hybrid markers? Do you know what one is? Or are you just repeating something someone else said? When in actuality you have no idea.

The moon is made of cheese, I heard an astronaut say it once, but I have no proof. See how that works?
Click to expand...


Mike, He WON'T because he doesn't understand- just "talking big" and regurgitating info from online forums and misunformed hobbyists. Let 'em believe what they wanna believe.
 
mike17l said:
David, I will repeat my question, can you give some examples of hybrid markers? Do you know what one is? Or are you just repeating something someone else said? When in actuality you have no idea.

The moon is made of cheese, I heard an astronaut say it once, but I have no proof. See how that works?
Click to expand...

Hybrid markers are signs of hybridization in a snake. When two snakes are crossed there are signs that show hybridization. Such as, scale keelation, pattern, and many other things.
 
Kevin S. said:
4833JungleCornMBody7-5-01.JPG.jpg
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I wonder what kind of mad man owns this snake? Talk about animal cruelty, That poor snake is sitting on pine shavings. O M G
 
snakemaster24 said:
Hybrid markers are signs of hybridization in a snake. When two snakes are crossed there are signs that show hybridization. Such as, scale keelation, pattern, and many other things.
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Keelation? you just saw me say something about that, so that does not count.

Pattern? I think I said something about that as well, but Ill give you a chance here, any specific examples of where the pattern might indicate hybridization?

Many other things? Do you have something that has not been mentioned in this thread already? Please give us a couple example.

Remember, the moon is made of cheese.
 
"Hybrid MARKERS! Not hybrid!"

Hybrid markers WOULD mean the animals ARE hybrids....:smash:

"Bloodreds escpecially the older ones develope faint stripes down thier sides."

OLDER corns (especially wild animals) develope dark longituduinal stripes down their bodies with age. This happens in okeetees alot. :sidestep:
 
What else starts patterned, has no belly pattern, and developes lateral stripes
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Snakes that change colour as they get older, WOW, that's somethng really new! ;)
Therefore are all snakes that change colour as they get older hybrids?
 
I have actually heard the everglade rat/bloodred claim a few times before. As far as I can remember the conclusion was that the traits could have come from natural integration between corns and everglades rats, not as a deliberate policy to produce a new morph.
 
diamondlil said:
I have actually heard the everglade rat/bloodred claim a few times before. As far as I can remember the conclusion was that the traits could have come from natural integration between corns and everglades rats, not as a deliberate policy to produce a new morph.
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Thank you Janine. I will get those stinkpot pics for you tointe!
 
snakemaster24 said:
You know what? You need to back up. I am posting my thoughts like evey other person here does. I simply heard something. Kathy may not know if when the gene popped up it was involved with other snakes. I am not calling her a liar. You are jumping on me! I did not say they were fact! Hybrid MARKERS! Not hybrid! Maybe or maybe not. Bloodreds escpecially the older ones develope faint stripes down thier sides. They also change color from babie to adults and they have a clear belly. What else starts patterned, has no belly pattern, and developes lateral stripes..............Yellow and Everglades ratsnakes. So is it possible that before these animals were collected and found they bred with a yellow rat and then the babies went with corns? Diluting the Yellow rat influence. That also may explaing the original ferility and feeding issues.
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I'll quote myself.

Hybrid markers has the word 'hybrid' in it, and 'markers' which are "signs of this thing". Such as 'het markers' for diffused or caramel or sunkissed. So hybrid markers means "signs that this snake has hybrid ancestry and is thus a hybrid"
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Keeled scales are a hybrid marker, for example.

You simply regurgitated something without doing more research. Ever notice that those ratsnakes... don't require a recessive gene in order to go through their pattern change? And that all corns change color from hatchling to adult? And that all corns actually develop the darker bands along the superior lateral aspect? Shall I drag out my adults for you? Liams banding is quite broad and has mostly overridden the coral color he used to have in his saddles. And it's not a darkening of the saddles as that would be the entire saddle.

The original fertility and feeding issues are extremely well explained by the fact that they were inbred to hell and back again. Hybrids are known for this thing called "hybrid vigor"... meaning they would have been stronger as hatchlings. It's why mutts in general have fewer inherent health problems than purebred dogs.

*edit* Drastic color change? Okeetees are hybrids then, and in fact all classics. And Caramels. And any animal not born with all its pigment. And amels. Oh dear.
 
snakemaster24 said:
You know what? You need to back up. I am posting my thoughts like evey other person here does. I simply heard something. Kathy may not know if when the gene popped up it was involved with other snakes. I am not calling her a liar. You are jumping on me! I did not say they were fact! Hybrid MARKERS! Not hybrid! Maybe or maybe not. Bloodreds escpecially the older ones develope faint stripes down thier sides. They also change color from babie to adults and they have a clear belly. What else starts patterned, has no belly pattern, and developes lateral stripes..............Yellow and Everglades ratsnakes. So is it possible that before these animals were collected and found they bred with a yellow rat and then the babies went with corns? Diluting the Yellow rat influence. That also may explaing the original ferility and feeding issues.
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Or like I explained in this post:

mike17l said:
David, do you know what a hybrid marker is?

It is nearly impossible for some morph animals (especially ones like tessera, terazzo and bloodred), ones that change to the pattern so drastically to show some markers, so that is why one must look at full siblings and offspring of these animals. To date, to my knowledge no sibling of or offspring of a tessera has shown significant hybrid markers, as well no "throwback" animals.

Other lines of corns cannot say the same thing. Anybody ever pick up a throwback champagne corn? Bout near as keeled as a pituophis. :blowup:
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Again, one must look at siblings and offspring of visual morphs, these animals have not shown "hybrid markers" (some word I heard a guy say once, I really don't know what it means).


I think it may be blue (cheese) - (the moon).
 
Fine I am not focusing on Terrazzo, Tessera, Sunkissed, Cinder. I am now talking about Bloodreds. Shiari back off.
 
David, still waiting for you the give us an example of a hybrid marker that has not already been mentioned by someone else in this thread. There are plenty of them out there.

Maybe its brie?
 
Bloodred still uses one particular recessive gene to produce the trait, something that does not occur with the ratsnakes you mentioned. The reason why old school bloods were truly deserving of the bloodred name is because they were linebred so extensively and narrowly. They became "purebred" in a way, and outcrossing to other corns to make "mutts" is what reintroduced vigor in the gene pool, because it was now broader.
 
mike17l said:
David, still waiting for you the give us an example of a hybrid marker that has not already been mentioned by someone else in this thread. There are plenty of them out there.

Maybe its brie?
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Ok for example if a black rat and a corn intergrade. You will see a snake that has more orange and red on it. May or may not have the typical corn spear point on the hear. It also may have a mix of checkers and the random pigmentation that occurs in obsoletus. Also you may see higher keelation because black rats seem to be more keeped than corns. Also you may see a different scale count.
 
snakemaster24 said:
Ok for example if a black rat and a corn intergrade. You will see a snake that has more orange and red on it. May or may not have the typical corn spear point on the hear. It also may have a mix of checkers and the random pigmentation that occurs in obsoletus. Also you may see higher keelation because black rats seem to be more keeped than corns. Also you may see a different scale count.
Click to expand...

So which of those have you personally noticed in tessera, terazzo, cinder, sunkissed, bloodred, ect?
 
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