Rumor I heard about Tesseras (sp?)

[Shiari]

then I buck you off and eat some grass.

You are not my horse. No, my horse is one that asks for evidence and examples rather than "I heard". Unfortunately, he's been fairly neglected in this thread, response wise and appears to have starved to death.

*prodprod*

 

[diamondlil]

Actually J9, I could be wrong here, but I think they are the same gene. It is just that bloodreds show the red as a result of line breeding, as opposed to diffused which were the result of outcrossing bloodreds to other morphs....

I get what you're saying, but I find the expression of the diffusion is so variable, that I just wonder if it's polygenic? I'd love to see a really truly diffused butter/blood (Sulphur?) but the pattern just stays really distinct in most I've seen. Perhaps from starting again with putting a butter to a highly diffused blood and line-breeding the resulting offspring the diffusion could be recovered?

 

[Carinata]

I'm goign to go eat lunch. I will look at this later

 

[wade]

I think we need to loose the term blood or bloodred. It confuses that group of genes. The diffused pattern is genetic, the bloodred coloration is not.

 

[torsten]

Torsten, look through the thread I made a post about them.

Please quote it for me because I am not able to find it...

Bloodreds, Sunkissed, Anery C, Terrazzo, Ultramel, AND Tesseras all have hybrid markers.

Like I said. Rich explained cinder, I read teh tessera story.
Sunkissed has an abberent pattern. They ALSO show much mroe aggression as opposed to normla corns. What else is more aggressive than corns? Rat snakes of the Sobsoletus. Bloodreds; clear belly, lateral stripes, head pattern, and color change.

As I asked above, What "Hybrid markers" are visible in: Tessera, Cinder and Terrazzo?
Explain to me which "hybrid markers" are shown in each of these morphs...please?

 

[starsevol]

I get what you're saying, but I find the expression of the diffusion is so variable, that I just wonder if it's polygenic? I'd love to see a really truly diffused butter/blood (Sulphur?) but the pattern just stays really distinct in most I've seen. Perhaps from starting again with putting a butter to a highly diffused blood and line-breeding the resulting offspring the diffusion could be recovered?

Yes, I think you are right there. I have seen some pretty well diffused granites and pewters and other morphs, I have a pewter that is out of this world in the diffusion dept. I wonder if the problem lies with the caramel gene there.....because my sulphur male and my amber blood female do look an awful lot like a butter and an amber....with little diffusion.
I think adding stripe to the mix would increase the diffusion alot though!

 

[diamondlil]

Yes, I think you are right there. I have seen some pretty well diffused granites and pewters and other morphs, I have a pewter that is out of this world in the diffusion dept. I wonder if the problem lies with the caramel gene there.....because my sulphur male and my amber blood female do look an awful lot like a butter and an amber....with little diffusion.
I think adding stripe to the mix would increase the diffusion alot though!

I'm sort of resistant to the adding of stripe, I want to see diffused caramel morphs! (I know, I'm being contrary!) I wonder if the no-pied pied bloods would do the trick?

 

[torsten]

I think adding stripe to the mix would increase the diffusion alot though!

It does, and motley. Add either or both of these to your caramel based bloods and you get fantastic results!

 

[diamondlil]

It does, and motley. Add either or both of these to your caramel based bloods and you get fantastic results!

Do you have any highly diffused ones you can show?

 

[torsten]

I do, somewhere...
I don't have any of my own pictures of them but i do have the breeders pictures of mine which he said I could post...I'll just have to find them! Alternatively (or aswell) you could search for Hector's Amber Bloodred Stripe and Caramel Bloodred Stripe as well as John's Hypo Sulphur Stripe.

 

[diamondlil]

I do, somewhere...
I don't have any of my own pictures of them but i do have the breeders pictures of mine which he said I could post...I'll just have to find them! Alternatively (or aswell) you could search for Hector's Amber Bloodred Stripe and Caramel Bloodred Stripe as well as John's Hypo Sulphur Stripe.

But the good diffusion on the better granites and pewters doesn't involve stripe or motley. Any ideas on why the caramel-based bloods are different?

 

[Carinata]

Well I really shouldn't say this BUT there is a rumor I only heard once that Caramels are also a hybrid or sorts but I really don't know. But that would explain it?

 

[mike17l]

Look I'm loosing this "battle". Mike can you give me some hybrid markers? Shiari, I said some things in my post I really did not intend. I never ment anyone to be called a liar. Maybe I am misinformed I am just staing some things I and several herpers have seen.

David, I could, but you are the one that has made accusations, you are the one that needs to "prove" your accusations. Remember my moon example?

You need to provide evidence of hybrid markers that you have noticed in any of the morphs you have listed. Please do this, until you can, I will believe that the moon is in fact cheddar.

 

[Shiari]

David, everything is claimed to be a hybrid at least once. In fact, just to invoke the perverse power of Murphy I'm now going to claim that Miami phase corns are actually a hybrid. I expect to see this rather silly statement repeated as "fact" sometime within the next 3 years. After all, miami-phase corns don't look like other corns....

 

[Carinata]

David, I could, but you are the one that has made accusations, you are the one that needs to "prove" your accusations. Remember my moon example?

You need to provide evidence of hybrid markers that you have noticed in any of the morphs you have listed. Please do this, until you can, I will believe that the moon is in fact cheddar.

Not argueing anymore, go eat try to eat the moon.

 

[torsten]

But the good diffusion on the better granites and pewters doesn't involve stripe or motley. Any ideas on why the caramel-based bloods are different?

Agreed, and I would assume that it is selective breeding as I also have and have seen recently some much better examples of caramel blood morphs and they haven't been around for anywhere near as long as the granites and pewters I don't think?

Here you go on the picture front:




David: Can you name a morph that hasn't been accused of been being a hybrid at some point?

 

[Shiari]

David, if you want hybrid markers... check out thayeri-corn crosses. Those animals retain heavy influence from the thayeri markings. They look to be, as they are, an intermediate form between the two. Those are hybrid markers, not recessive traits. In turn, there are plenty of creamsicles out there now that look identical to pure-corn amels. You would be unable to tell them apart because there are NO hybrid markers. So if you can't always tell a cream, how on earth are you claiming that sunkissed, bloods, and those other traits which have been outcrossed now to everything under the sun, still retain hybrid markers?

 

[diamondlil]

Thanks Torsten, they are lovely!

 

[mike17l]

Not argueing anymore, go eat try to eat the moon.

Don't know what you said there?

Well you see David, I heard it said that the moon was cheese, but I have never checked for myself, I have no evidence for this fact. All I have is hearsay, from some guy that saw a picture of the moon once, he has not even seen it in real life, just a picture. But, gosh darn it, he said it was cheese, so I believe him. If you ask me to prove otherwise, I simply have to ask you to prove that it is not cheese. Can you do that? Can you prove to me the moon is not cheese?

You made the accusation, you are the one who should defend that accusation.

Or, is this your way of saying "I, David, am wrong. I incorrectly repeated a story that was most likely fabricated and not based on any actual evidence. I apologize for this, and will do my best to keep this from happening again."

Is that what you were trying to say?

 

[Shiari]

Related, I have seen a few granites that I would have thought to simply be aneries had their bellies not been clear. It's still quite possible to find barely diffused examples of other morphs.