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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

Umm a mistake was made when Rich quoted that. Beth did not say the statement in question that got that particular member banned. The correct person did get banned for that statement.
 
Yes, and he is back and kickin'!

I probably should not have said what I did, but it felt good to say it!
And believe me, the mods have no problem infracting on me when I mess up, so if one of them felt my comment ban worthy, I am sure I would be swimming with the fishes by now!
 
I suspect Dave was referring to your "hovel under the bridge" comment. I think people should not be so quick to throw out comments like that. I found it irritating as well.
 
For that I apologize, Nanci.
Irritating people I dislike or am indifferent to is one thing,
but I do hate to irritate you.....(and dp...)

It just bothered me alot that this person who I had never seen before chose to bring this thread up from the dead, and the things he said I felt were directed at me, because of my stance on this issue. I don't like being stung by strangers.
And I reacted in anger.
And snark.....
 
Personally, I love the sound of ((Cornduran x banana california Kingsnake) x (Peublacorn x banana california Kingsnake)) x Turbocorn F2.
 
Weren't Ratsnakes and Cornsnakes considered the same thing at some point? kinda the same way Rosy Ratsnakes and cornsnakes are now? They are considering of making Rosy rats another spieces arent they? (I think i read that somewhere)

Are they THAT different?

I don't know how important 'Purebred' is in the snake world, But in the dog world; a pug is a dog, pit bull is a dog, a golden retriver is a dog, and a mutt is a dog. Dosen't make them a hybrid. Just a mix bred.

Guess my point is... Why is it so offensive?
 
BSLMichael said:
Weren't Ratsnakes and Cornsnakes considered the same thing at some point? kinda the same way Rosy Ratsnakes and cornsnakes are now? They are considering of making Rosy rats another spieces arent they? (I think i read that somewhere)

Are they THAT different?

I don't know how important 'Purebred' is in the snake world, But in the dog world; a pug is a dog, pit bull is a dog, a golden retriver is a dog, and a mutt is a dog. Dosen't make them a hybrid. Just a mix bred.

Guess my point is... Why is it so offensive?
Click to expand...

Ah... correction Rosy Rats were considered a sub... Now not. Still. They just change it on a whim.
 
BSLMichael said:
Weren't Ratsnakes and Cornsnakes considered the same thing at some point? kinda the same way Rosy Ratsnakes and cornsnakes are now? They are considering of making Rosy rats another spieces arent they? (I think i read that somewhere)

Are they THAT different?

I don't know how important 'Purebred' is in the snake world, But in the dog world; a pug is a dog, pit bull is a dog, a golden retriver is a dog, and a mutt is a dog. Dosen't make them a hybrid. Just a mix bred.

Guess my point is... Why is it so offensive?
Click to expand...

That's because a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog.
Orrrrrr...
A canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris.

With snakes, you're dealing with different species. The classifications may, can, and will change as new information and research is being conducted and deciphered.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
That's because a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog.
Orrrrrr...
A canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris is a canis familiaris.

With snakes, you're dealing with different species. The classifications may, can, and will change as new information and research is being conducted and deciphered.
Click to expand...

This is exactly it!! A dog is a dog. A snake is a snake. But when you break it down further and bred a purebred golden to a purebred pug, you would get a mutt, just a dog. Same thing with snakes you bred your corn to a king snake (or whatever), you are essentially getting a mutt, just another snake. This is why people have issues with hybrid breeding and it is the same thing with any other animal, even dogs. Find a purebred dog breeder and some will tell you how against these "designer dogs" they are as well. You will also find some that are for it, just like you are seeing in this thread.
 
Who decides a dog is a dog is a dog? Who decides what constitutes a species and what doesn't? Really, man has been hybridizing plants and animals for over 10,000+. Where do new breeds come from? Typically, the come from selective breeding, outcrossing, line breeding, etc. Man has been breeding different animals and plants together to successfully create new breeds of plants and animals for over 10,000 years. When does a mutt become a new established breed? When does a mutt become a recognized breed? Seriously....
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Who decides a dog is a dog is a dog? Who decides what constitutes a species and what doesn't? Really, man has been hybridizing plants and animals for over 10,000+. Where do new breeds come from? Typically, the come from selective breeding, outcrossing, line breeding, etc. Man has been breeding different animals and plants together to successfully create new breeds of plants and animals for over 10,000 years. When does a mutt become a new established breed? When does a mutt become a recognized breed? Seriously....
Click to expand...

My guess would be the thousands of scientists that study all of those things in their respective fields.
 
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My point is that all breeds have been created from mutts or wild x wild specimens and named by humans. Even our classification system is made by humans that are constantly revising our system. So, what makes a mutt a mutt? Humans decide when to move a hybrid from mutt status to recognized breed status. Hybridizing is nothing new, we have been doing it for 10,000+years.
 
So, the real question is why have humans hybridized animals and plants for so much of our rich history? The answer is complex. Sometimes we hybridize animals for beauty, companionship, and sometimes we do so to provide a better food source. Often times, even the animals we breed for one purpose we allow other factors to also influence what we select for and yes, many times this involves more than one species (as defined at that time by man) being introduced into the genetic mix.
 
So... these are the only two points I'm getting from you:

1) We hybridize things.
2) We've been doing it for thousands of years.

Am I missing anything else? Those points have been made several times throughout the thread. People have reasons for why they like and agree with it, and other people have reasons for why they don't.
 
You are missing the biggest point perhaps.... and that point is that how we classify an animal is simply a human construct and it changes. For example, a mutt becomes a recognized breed when a group of humans decide it warrants classification as an new breed. What is a defining characteristic of a breed... it must breed true for starters. So, the old argument that you are creating mutts is not a good one as it is actually how breeds are created. If you don't want new breeds that is fine, but calling breeders stupid for wanting to do what we as humans have actively engaged in for much of our recorded history and then relating how a pug bred to a zu is a mutt... well it clearly shows that not much is understood on exactly how a new breed comes about as that is exactly how a new breed comes about.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
So... these are the only two points I'm getting from you:

1) We hybridize things.
2) We've been doing it for thousands of years.

Am I missing anything else? Those points have been made several times throughout the thread. People have reasons for why they like and agree with it, and other people have reasons for why they don't.
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much it it seems. But i think he may be also saying that is happens often and has been for a long time so it shouldn't be something regarded as offensive.
 
botanists have often argued that hybrids may contribute adaptive variation to existing species, and may even be the source of new recombinant species.view, hybrid zones are tied to environmental patterns, and hybrid genotypes are more likely to be favoured, perhaps...http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/products/journals/freepdf/mec1216.pdf
So, perhaps another big point that is being missed is that while it is true that mankind hybridizes.... so too does nature. Do you find nature offensive?
 
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