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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

Bonkers_Scar2011 said:
Well Dave I just stated my opinion and I found it VERY frustrating last night, and thanks for singling me out as well I wasn't the only one who had an issue with it.

That's great if is he is not a troll but bloody hell seriously what's left to say about hybrids? You will never agree on the same thing - especially you where perfectly normal (slightly alien gened) HYBRIDS are King food! And he loves hybrids sooo much he has to quote every single positive post in this whole thread!
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Really, there's no need for swearing to get a point across.
 
If anyone is offended by my use of a portion of a word, not the entire word, but a portion of it to show as an example or to reflect back on how I might consider being called dense, awkward, etc. as denigrating or derogatory.... let me please explain my stance on this. I find being called dense, awkward, etc. much more offensive than simply using a portion of an expletive (note the entire expletive) to reflect how that makes me feel and not actually directed at a person. It is not the word itself that does damage, but how that word is directed. Food for thought. With that said, I think this has gone on far enough and I can only say I forgive everyone for their part in this whole stinking threat that I pulled up from the depths of hell so to speak. I forgive myself for my part in it. If any of you should post something kind to me, I will think of it as being kind and not sarcastic and I would hope you are capable of doing the same. Tempers flare, emotions spit, and then logic sets in sometimes. No one likes admitting that their emotions got the better of them and that they may not be 100% right. I am apologizing for my part in this. Lets not continue to try and fry each other and stick pins in each other proving who is the most correct or incorrect in their behavior.
 
Lol, okay, I need to proof read my posts, but you get the picture. Note = not and threat = thread, but one could argue it was a freudian slip if you like.
 
Does anybody remember that commercial..it was breath mints or gum or deoderant or something but the tagline was "You never get a second chance to make a good first impression". ?
 
‘The first time you see Carpe Serpentis you see all his faults, and the rest of your life you spend discovering his virtues’ Try to see or don't try to see, in the end who's loss it? This depends on perspective and whether you have the ability to see or change perspective. Some people are rigid and dogmatic in their perspectives and almost completely unable to change or grow. I think we have all met one or two of these individuals in our time.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
‘The first time you see Carpe Serpentis you see all his faults, and the rest of your life you spend discovering his virtues’ Try to see or don't try to see, in the end who's loss it? This depends on perspective and whether you have the ability to see or change perspective. Some people are rigid and dogmatic in their perspectives and almost completely unable to change or grow. I think we have all met one or two of these individuals in our time.
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For some it might be just a case of after viewing his faults you are so negatively impacted that you just don't bother with him after that. Most people put their best foot forward right away, and by the time their faults are known they have good solid friends who find out their faults and still love them anyway. Right now I just can't imagine ever thinking very highly of you.
 
Its a good thing my self concept is not rooted in what you think of me. With that said, I can imagine liking you and I'll leave it at that.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Lol, okay, I need to proof read my posts, but you get the picture. Note = not and threat = thread, but one could argue it was a freudian slip if you like.
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I think the word "threat" is probably far more accurate than "thread" when referring to most hybrid posts anyway. :roflmao:

All of my posts tell the entire tale, but you might have to read past some of the jabs here and there that others provoke. :rolleyes:

See, I am a realist that has seen 46 years of this snake hobby since 1966-67. I've seen what it was in it's very basic infancy when most people (and I myself as a kid) could only dream of owning some of the cool snakes we saw in many books, let alone ever THOUGHT of breeding snakes, and how it gradually progressed, and how it evolved further still, and where it is headed now. All of the things I post (many thousands of posts) are from what I truly know, have researched, and have deeply studied and experienced personally over the years. All I can say is that I am glad that I do not have to solely depend on other people to tell me what type of snake something is, or I would probably have a snake room filled to the brim with unknown, misidentified, and extremely questionable stuff too just like the majority of this hobby mainstream does. It's because of all these specific reasons I mention all the time that people have all this bogus stuff thinking it is something else. This is not only about cornsnakes at all, this is about all snakes in the hobby, including cornsnakes.

1) Not enough people want to learn and research what really sets the different snakes apart from one another in the first place (meristic science).

2) Today's handy internet has every Tom, Dick and Harry clicking on and focusing on mostly just the pretty colors and patterns of everything, and they seem to care much less about what specific types of snakes they actually ARE. Certainly not all, but many.

3) Newer people see countless pretty looking snakes with a simple click of their computer mouse and see everyone else breeding snakes, so they want to join in and produce them too thinking it is all fun and big money without even knowing the FIRST THING about what they are doing well before getting into it.

4) Too many people want "instant" gratification in producing some unique type of snake they can say they manilulated themselves to breed, and if it took a number of years to do by line-breeding, or getting an authentic morph snake and a normal het of a certain type of morph(s) , that takes way too long for them, so they figure hybrids seems to be the exciting ticket for them.

5) When soo many folks cross snakes indiscriminately and sell them to others that also really don't care much about what specific type they are, only that it "looks cool", the lineage information typically gets lost or forgotten almost immediately, and whoever else acquires the snakes and their progressive offspring are just as in the dark as many of the other previous owner/breeders were as they continue to exchange hands and bred to whatever else type of snakes down the line as time goes by.

6) Most all snakes will end up being labelled and sols as whatever they tend to best represent at any given time along the way as they exchange hands and are bred to whatever else someone happens to breed them to, which only perpetuates it countless more times by the folds, and so on, and so on, and so on..........

7) Once hybrid/crossed stuff is produced and gets sold, they can never be taken back......ever!

8) Many people that don't care about crossed stuff certainly won't ever care about what their crossed snakes they produced are ever bred to by the people that acquire them. As a matter of fact, most double or triple crosses will never be bred to those same parent types that produced them in the first place, because generally the more types of different snakes are involved in the hybrid/crossed product, the happier the breeders are with them.

9) Many hybrid, or subspecific intergrade crosses don't always produce obvious hybrid/cross looking phenotypes, so these "by-product" offspring later get sold or called whatever they happen to best represent, and they go on to dilute other people's authentic stuff that looks very similar.

Anyway, this is how it all works today with very few exceptions. I know this, this is not an uneducated opinion. all I have to do is go to ANY reptile show, ANY pet store, or click on ANY forums or ANY classified ads ANY day of the week, and BAM!......there's the living proof.

Believe me, I don't break out in a cold sweat and stay up at nights dwelling on this at all, because I know of many excellent sources of different types of authentic stuff to obtain just about whenever I want. Either morphs or normal wild phenotype animals, but so many in this hobby really don't know where to get real-deal stuff, or even have any idea how to identify the most authentic stuff, so they get bogus stuff right off the bat and just make more. :eek:


cheers, ~Doug
 
I can respect you point of view Dmong, but I'm a pretty colors kind of guy that also believes in line-breeding those hybrids to create stable new varieties... exactly like what was done with Peacocks. I know, peacocks are not snakes.:smash: I won't try and hammer in the point of why I think its similar. Personally, I find the prospect of responsibly hybridizing and line-breeding new lines of snakes to an exciting frontier whereby we can create possibilities that would be impossible to make any other way. I get a little frustrated when I hear a hybridizer that is afraid to breed a hybrid that looks pure corn back to something else as I'm thinking... what are the potentially missing. If the works in progress are properly labeled and shared there should be no problem. I see what your saying though... that just hasn't been the case. What is needed is responsible hybridizing and labeling of those hybrids. Still, some just don't care and just want a beautiful snake. I see that as well. So, in the end it seems that since it is so hard to police the hybridizers and those that just like pretty snakes that it would be much easier to police the ones that want to be policed.... i.e. the ones that want pure/regional/etc. insert your label here____ specimens. If those that have those desired specimens share with each other and don't mix unknown genetics then there is no problem. The problem as I see it is only a problem if it goes both ways... i.e. those that want pure specimens allow hybrids into their collection to breed with. Perhaps what is needed is a list of known people and breeders with pure specimens?
 
I am really hoping this thread stays on the calm side. I think enough jabs on both sides have been made. Have a great weekend all.
 
I wonder if the TS knows gray rats intergrade with corns and most likely have bred in the wild? Or maybe he is a troll. One would hope he's not that stupid.
 
Clayton said:
I wonder if the TS knows gray rats intergrade with corns and most likely have bred in the wild?...
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I hear this every year, and never see pics. I have seen several pics of naturally occurring black X gray and black X yellow in nature over the years, but never the corn X rat "natural" intergrade. Or a yellow X gray for that matter, which I would think possible where their range overlaps...

and just for grins babies from a suspect gray rat/corn snake X black rat snake

hybrids110508006.jpg
 
I now im going to be off topic but my male blood red is loseing wait ever since we breed him he is eating no regurge but now i can see his spine . What could be causing this ive had him for 6 years and he is my favorite in my group.... I have him soaking to see if he is dehydrating himself but .i highly dought he is i checked him for mites and nothing. Could it be internal parasites and if so what can i use .i leave for oakland in the morn. For a week for work . My wife will be home but i dint want a call saying he passed and the closest specialest is in tacoma 70 miles away and wont be open tell monday
 
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