stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

[ReptileGeek181]

Why. ???

On another forum a member was sold 2 female garter snakes of different subspecies and she housed them communally, fast forward 2 years later she saw them lock up which means 1 of them was male. After she posted about the accidental breeding a lot of people were advising her to euthanize all the babies and a few people were against it. Then another member asked if neutering/spaying a snake is viable so she can give away the babies.

So out of curiosity I wanted to know if castration on a snake was possible.

 

[Vinman]

I tie the base of the hemipen with dential floss then snip it off. I only do this to hybrids that come out looking pure. Any of the weird looking ones I leave alone. I kill the females because there is no easy way of sterilizing them.

I breed corns and I also have corn hybrids. If I back breed and get something that looks pure . I sell them as a pets and tell them it is a corn hybrid. I sell them to pet stores or as pets. No reason to tell anybody because I'm not selling them to people to breed them and screw up the blood lines any more then they already are. If someone tells me they want to breed it then I tell them I sterilized it.

 

[Vinman]

On another forum a member was sold 2 female garter snakes of different subspecies and she housed them communally, fast forward 2 years later she saw them lock up which means 1 of them was male. After she posted about the accidental breeding a lot of people were advising her to euthanize all the babies and a few people were against it. Then another member asked if neutering/spaying a snake is viable so she can give away the babies.

So out of curiosity I wanted to know if castration on a snake was possible.

feel free to call me if you like to talk to me about it

 

[DMong]

So when you castrate snakes do you tell the people who buy them, or is it a secret? It's been rumored that some breeders castrate males secretly in order to prevent competitive breeding down the line of the high-end morphs they sell. That disgusts me.

I am also very disgusted. I'm sure these good people go out of their way to make sure the buyers know all about this right up front before they shell out the money.


~Doug

 

[Vinman]

Snip the hemipenes with scissors. He has mentioned it in the past. I would never do it...

I don't like doing it, but at least it is better than death. I have to do it, it is only right to not let them be mistaken for pure animals and taint the corns any more than has already been done

 

[DMong]

I tie the base of the hemipen with dential floss then snip it off. I only do this to hybrids that come out looking pure. Any of the weird looking ones I leave alone. I kill the females because there is no easy way of sterilizing them.

I breed corns and I also have corn hybrids. If I back breed and get something that looks pure . I sell them as a pets and tell them it is a corn hybrid. I sell them to pet stores or as pets. No reason to tell anybody because I'm not selling them to people to breed them and screw up the blood lines any more then they already are. If someone tells me they want to breed it then I tell them I sterilized it.

Yeah, everyone knows nobody that has ever bought a snake from a store has ever bred it it anything............WTF???? :noevil:

:headbang:

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Yeah, everyone knows nobody that has ever bought a snake from a store has ever bred it it anything............WTF???? :noevil:

:headbang:

Now, I may disagree with Dmong on a great many things, but I have to agree with him on this one. A person buying a snake from pet store may be trying to buy something to breed themselves to create... who knows... there own hybrid. Perhaps, your hybrid cornsnake that looks pure was selected by them to breed to their own pueblacorn? Buyers don't always disclose their intentions to those they are buying from even if asked. They may be afraid that you might not approve of the hybrids they are going to create or simply think its none of your business etc.
Regardless, if your selling neutered snakes you should list them as neutered. I'd much rather by a snake that was not neutered though and simply be told this is not a pure corn, it may look pure, but its not. It is 1/4, 1/4, and 2/4 this. You give that person the ability to use that knowledge and yes, even make their own hybrid back to one of the parent species. Who knows, they may even be just as ethical as you and they may come up with some phenotypical expression you might have missed as you did not make that cross with that specimen? Even if it turns up a dead end for that person with that cross... it does not mean that they have to stop there. They can continue with their attempts until they do create something worthwhile.

 

[Lyion]

Umm.... I don't know my stance on castrating snakes, but isn't there a more humane way to do it? I mean, especially if the scissors are dull. Could you take them to the vet to do that?

 

[DMong]

Now, I may disagree with Dmong on a great many things, but I have to agree with him on this one. A person buying a snake from pet store may be trying to buy something to breed themselves to create... who knows... there own hybrid. Perhaps, your hybrid cornsnake that looks pure was selected by them to breed to their own pueblacorn? Buyers don't always disclose their intentions to those they are buying from even if asked. They may be afraid that you might not approve of the hybrids they are going to create or simply think its none of your business etc.
Regardless, if your selling neutered snakes you should list them as neutered. I'd much rather by a snake that was not neutered though and simply be told this is not a pure corn, it may look pure, but its not. It is 1/4, 1/4, and 2/4 this. You give that person the ability to use that knowledge and yes, even make their own hybrid back to one of the parent species. Who knows, they may even be just as ethical as you and they may come up with some phenotypical expression you might have missed as you did not make that cross with that specimen? Even if it turns up a dead end for that person with that cross... it does not mean that they have to stop there. They can continue with their attempts until they do create something worthwhile.

Yes, or even more surprisingly, their own cornsnakes.....who would have thought? :roflmao:

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I have no problem with castrating snakes, but I do have a problem with buying a castrated snake that is not sold as a castrated snake. I can always believe that a purist or hybridizer has not kept up with their records, but when you castrate a snake.... you should most assuredly at least keep up with that. An important question for snake buyers... Did you castrate the snake I am about to purchase? Do you have any records of its parents/lineage/pedigree chart? Is there something I might want to know later that I don't know enough to ask at the moment that you might like to disclose?:awcrap:

 

[Vinman]

Umm.... I don't know my stance on castrating snakes, but isn't there a more humane way to do it? I mean, especially if the scissors are dull. Could you take them to the vet to do that?

Common sense I use cuticle scissors. they are very sharp. one fast snip and off they go

 

[Nanci]

You shouldn't have to ASK if a snake is castrated. That's ridiculous. Well, I'm a huge proponent of ACR registered snakes. Still, the accuracy of the records depends on the honesty of the registering breeder.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Yes, or even more surprisingly, their own cornsnakes.....who would have thought? :roflmao:

I get it Dmong, your saying some people are unethical and some will use their known almost pure hybrid corn to breed to other corns and sell them off as corns. Again, that is an ethical dilemma whereby one person is not being honest and you can not enforce honesty on anyone whether they are a purist or a hybridizer. You make a valid point here, but you can not play goddess and tell people what they can and can not breed as people will do what they like to regardless of your personal opinion or your personal ethics.

I can not condone that action, but here is something else to consider. What if the castration is not 100%. The unsuspecting buyer who had no intention of ever breeding his castrated corn later gets a stunning female corn and decides... what the heck. The castration is not complete... and now the person is being honest to the best of their knowledge. They are selling corns that they think are 100% pure. If the seller told them that they were not pure when purchased... this might not have happened. The buyer might have become a purist and not bred the two or the buyer might have labeled them as hybrids again and shown the pedigree or lineage information supplied to them by the store in question....

 

[Vinman]

Now, I may disagree with Dmong on a great many things, but I have to agree with him on this one. A person buying a snake from pet store may be trying to buy something to breed themselves to create... who knows... there own hybrid. Perhaps, your hybrid cornsnake that looks pure was selected by them to breed to their own pueblacorn? Buyers don't always disclose their intentions to those they are buying from even if asked. They may be afraid that you might not approve of the hybrids they are going to create or simply think its none of your business etc.
Regardless, if your selling neutered snakes you should list them as neutered. I'd much rather by a snake that was not neutered though and simply be told this is not a pure corn, it may look pure, but its not. It is 1/4, 1/4, and 2/4 this. You give that person the ability to use that knowledge and yes, even make their own hybrid back to one of the parent species. Who knows, they may even be just as ethical as you and they may come up with some phenotypical expression you might have missed as you did not make that cross with that specimen? Even if it turns up a dead end for that person with that cross... it does not mean that they have to stop there. They can continue with their attempts until they do create something worthwhile.

I used to work in many of pet stores here in NY. I can't tell you how many people bought snakes out of the shop and bred them . Some even buy pairs. I have sold many people mates to a pet snake thay bought in a pet store. I have no need to disclose that a hybrid corn that looks pure is neutered. I'm not selling it for a breeder animal. Good for them if they don't have enough smarts to know not to breed it back to a corn. This insures they wont be screwing up corns any more than they already are. If they tried to sex it the probe would not go in deep enough to sex as a female. I cut the hemipean at the base

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

You shouldn't have to ASK if a snake is castrated. That's ridiculous. Well, I'm a huge proponent of ACR registered snakes. Still, the accuracy of the records depends on the honesty of the registering breeder.

This seems like the most logical way of keeping things honest!​

:blowup:
http://herpregistry.com/acr/faq.php#12
Q- What about hybrids and intergrades? Can they be registered?
A- Absolutely! Registration of hybrids and intergrades will make information about their lineage available to the general public and keep their heritage from being so easily lost.:devil01:
Thanks for your input Nanci and I agree with you on this one.

 

[DMong]

You shouldn't have to ASK if a snake is castrated. That's ridiculous. Well, I'm a huge proponent of ACR registered snakes. Still, the accuracy of the records depends on the honesty of the registering breeder.

I know, I can just imagine me asking my close buds if their nice authentic offspring has been castrated or not.

It reminds me of competing Mexican drug cartels that will do whatever it takes to ensure that what they do continues on for them at any cost..... :shrugs:

 

[Vinman]

I get it Dmong, your saying some people are unethical and some will use their known almost pure hybrid corn to breed to other corns and sell them off as corns. Again, that is an ethical dilemma whereby one person is not being honest and you can not enforce honesty on anyone whether they are a purist or a hybridizer. You make a valid point here, but you can not play goddess and tell people what they can and can not breed as people will do what they like to regardless of your personal opinion or your personal ethics.

I can not condone that action, but here is something else to consider. What if the castration is not 100%. The unsuspecting buyer who had no intention of ever breeding his castrated corn later gets a stunning female corn and decides... what the heck. The castration is not complete... and now the person is being honest to the best of their knowledge. They are selling corns that they think are 100% pure. If the seller told them that they were not pure when purchased... this might not have happened. The buyer might have become a purist and not bred the two or the buyer might have labeled them as hybrids again and shown the pedigree or lineage information supplied to them by the store in question....

Sorry I castrate at the base . That is why I use dental floss to keep the hemipean erect so i can cut it at the base. Now what your saying is true how many people buy a hybrid mal and they are necver told it is a hybrid. Like what the guy was doing wirth his 7/8 hybrid snows at the White Plains show. How many breeders do that don't bother telling people it is not pure because it looks pure

 

[Vinman]

You shouldn't have to ASK if a snake is castrated. That's ridiculous. Well, I'm a huge proponent of ACR registered snakes. Still, the accuracy of the records depends on the honesty of the registering breeder.

Nanci you missunder stood what I'm saying I ask them if they are buying it as a breeder if they say yes I tell them I castrated it. If they are buying it as a pet then I dont.

ACR don't mean anything how may people lie . They do it all the time so you mean no body going to lie on the ACR. Sorry i never bought into that one. anyone can lie . How about if they did DNA samples then that be a different story. I seen the same thing done with dogs. They take the papers off one dog and use it for another dog that has no papers .

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I used to work in many of pet stores here in NY. I can't tell you how many people bought snakes out of the shop and bred them . Some even buy pairs. I have sold many people mates to a pet snake thay bought in a pet store. I have no need to disclose that a hybrid corn that looks pure is neutered. I'm not selling it for a breeder animal. Good for them if they don't have enough smarts to know not to breed it back to a corn. This insures they wont be screwing up corns any more than they already are. If they tried to sex it the probe would not go in deep enough to sex as a female. I cut the hemipean at the base

I'm not saying you have to agree with my logic or my opinions. I'm just asking you to take some time and consider them. Is it logical to conclude that you snake is neutered when you buy it from a pet store? Only if this is common practice with all snakes in all pet stores or even if it is common practice with all snakes from your pet store... Generally, word of mouth will eventually get around and it will be known that your store only sells neutered or sterile males or if not all males are neutered, but a large portion of them are... it will get around that they are neutered. I've seen hybrids for sale on some web sites. Some of them are listed for one price and some of them are listed as breeders and go for a higher price. Now, I always thought that breeders were just a higher quality of hybrid or perhaps even a breeding age snake hybrid. Now, I am thinking that perhaps some of the hybrids offered are neutered and the breeders are the not scissor cut babies. The bottom line is that these questions should not have to be asked. The answers should be stated clearly and made available to the buyer. Full disclosure when you sell something to a customer is made or you are not being ethical.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

A person may buy a snake as a pet today and decide to breed it years down the road after gaining experience and knowledge. What is true for a person today may not be true for them the next. People change.