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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

SnakeAround said:
I think I have seen purists show up in threads about hybrids more than once to state their opinion about it without being asked to... why don't you guys just avoid hybrid threads?
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Well, this particular thread was questioning why someone may have hybridized in order to create a new morph, which would then be passed off as pure corn. It wasn't a yay go hybrids thread at all.
 
mattsnake said:
I don't think hybrids occur in nature very often if at all. Maybe very rarely. And the fact that natural hybrids may come into being does not justify these massive hybrid breedings of corn x random colubrid. These hybrid breedings are very wide spread and reading these threads make it seem like it is a worldwide epidemic. I think corn hybrids have gotten totally out of control and everything is going into a terrible colubrid mush.
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Well said!......you obviously have the good sense and ability to see the big overall picture of today's general hobby "hodge-podge".


cheers, ~Doug
 
Now, on a more difficult note, a hybrid bred back 5 times to a cornsnake is 97% pure cornsnake. I'm assuming if someone is going to the time and expense of doing this that they are doing so for a reason. Perhaps to introduce a new phenotype that could not have occurred in the wild population or that was extremely rare like a trait for calico. Now, I am personally of the opinion that if one did create a calico that was greater than 97% pure corn or some other even more rare phenotype that it is okay to do so and have that hybrid look like a pure cornsnake. Heck, it can be extremely hard to keep a phenotype while breeding back to another species to get greater than 97% purity of species. That is an accomplishment to be shouted from the roof tops. Given the climate of this forum and how important it is to most I have met here, I can not imagine anyone who accomplished such a task would not want to shout it out over the roof tops that they have just created the most amazing cornsnake phenotype that is 98% pure cornsnake... other than the fact that they might fear that they might be denigrated for doing so. They might keep it a secret when in fact it should be shouted out loud and proud... simply for fear of being ostracized. Now, these are speculations of mine.... so take them with a grain of salt. But understand, this is how I feel after just a short time on this forum... I can only imagine how others feel that have spent much more time in this community.
 
Nanci said:
Ethics? Creating lives so you can, God-like, choose which shall live and which shall die, for YOUR sole enjoyment? Sick sick sick.
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I could not do that, EVER. But to sell something that looks pure to someone who could easily taint all kinds of bloodlines with it....that hits rather close to home for me. I would prefer they not be bred at all, but if it must be done it should be done absolutely knowing that hybrids will not be sold as pure down the road.

I don't know of any other way to do that.
 
starsevol said:
Susan, NOW I see the end of the Carol Burnett show. Remember that cartoon of her in the maid's outfit cleaning up when the show was finished?

Dayum I am old!
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I LOVE The Carol Burnett Show! Netflix needs to put it on InstantQueue, and I mean ALL of it, not just a select few favorites!

carol+burnett+cleaning+woman3.jpg
 
Well- there are probably a million creme sickle amels being bred without anyone knowing it. BUT I really doubt that there are so many hybrid corns being produced, that look exactly like "pure" corns, that we have to worry so much about it at the cost of killing otherwise healthy snakes. If you _are_ worried about it- buy corns from someone who isn't breeding pet shop wholesale stock into their lines. I'm not...
 
Nanci said:
Well- there are probably a million creme sickle amels being bred without anyone knowing it. BUT I really doubt that there are so many hybrid corns being produced, that look exactly like "pure" corns, that we have to worry so much about it at the cost of killing otherwise healthy snakes. If you _are_ worried about it- buy corns from someone who isn't breeding pet shop wholesale stock into their lines. I'm not...
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Like I said, I would never do it. I had to have Vidalia put to sleep last year. Had a vet do it. I cried for a week.
In my head culling pure looking hybrids is responsible, as long as it is done humanely. But as for doing it, never...I would have a thousand pure looking "pets"...good thing I don't breed hybrids.....
 
My opinion is that purists are not born with any inherently different special ability to select pure specimens. A purist can seek other purists to get species or locals from.

Heck, a hybridizer can also be a purist. A hybridizer can keep track of hybrids and pure specimens. Pedigrees can be kept. The fact that this is even an issue speaks volumes about the lack of ethical record keeping/buying of snakes, etc. in the past. I tend not to cry over spilt milk. If I want a pure cornsnake and I know that the hobby is full hybridized cornsnakes... I'll go outside and get one and I will only trade or buy from others that have done the same. If, I want a hybrid, I will make my own or trade/buy from other hybridizers that have kept good records as I have. If those things are important... can't we all agree to keep records and only deal with those that keep similar records? It seems like an easy fix that people are acting as if there is no fix for.
 
Nanci said:
Well, this particular thread was questioning why someone may have hybridized in order to create a new morph, which would then be passed off as pure corn. It wasn't a yay go hybrids thread at all.
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I did not say purists were popping up in this particular thread without being asked through the subject. But I have seen it happening on threads about hybrids that where not at all intended to start the discussion. And over here purists could still choose to stay away from all the hybrid photo's which they could expect to see here and actually are being shown here. And I also think hybridizers can answer the OP's question better than any purists :bird: Though I do agree that the ones that do not label hybrids appropriately, are not doing the right thing, but that is just an opinion, not a fact.
 
dave partington said:
Will the other sole be dropping soon?
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It takes more than one to carry on a conversation, argument, or debate. If you don't like it... the easy solution is to not participate. I have just as much right to post here as anyone else. Perhaps more, if you consider the question was actually directed at breeders. "Stupid breeders, why can't you just leave things be?"

If you consider the question was directed to hybridizers.... hybridizers are the only ones that should be posting here. The poster is not asking, "Purists, why can't you just let hybridizers be?" Its not asking for the purist side of the discussion. I enjoy listening to everyones side on the issue as long as it remains civil though.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Now, on a more difficult note, a hybrid bred back 5 times to a cornsnake is 97% pure cornsnake. I'm assuming if someone is going to the time and expense of doing this that they are doing so for a reason. Perhaps to introduce a new phenotype that could not have occurred in the wild population or that was extremely rare like a trait for calico. Now, I am personally of the opinion that if one did create a calico that was greater than 97% pure corn or some other even more rare phenotype that it is okay to do so and have that hybrid look like a pure cornsnake. Heck, it can be extremely hard to keep a phenotype while breeding back to another species to get greater than 97% purity of species. That is an accomplishment to be shouted from the roof tops. Given the climate of this forum and how important it is to most I have met here, I can not imagine anyone who accomplished such a task would not want to shout it out over the roof tops that they have just created the most amazing cornsnake phenotype that is 98% pure cornsnake... other than the fact that they might fear that they might be denigrated for doing so. They might keep it a secret when in fact it should be shouted out loud and proud... simply for fear of being ostracized. Now, these are speculations of mine.... so take them with a grain of salt. But understand, this is how I feel after just a short time on this forum... I can only imagine how others feel that have spent much more time in this community.
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Lovely polarisation over here :) (if that is the right word)
 
Is it panda time yet?

baby-panda2.jpg


And yes, I remember that Rich doesn't want a million panda images plastered in a thread, so I found an image with enough baby pandas for everyone!
 
starsevol said:
INTERGRADES occur in nature.
And to me, MY opinion on this issue trumps hybridizer's opinions on this issue.
Get used it.
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Oooorrrrrrrrrr... You could get used to the idea that you're not always right. :)
Sorry, darlin', but this is one time where I really really REALLY don't agree with you. If you thought the hybridizers sounded pretentious, you just showed levels of it rivaling the Queen of Narcissism. You're incredibly self-righteous on this issue, and it's very unbecoming of you.

Jussayin'.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
Oooorrrrrrrrrr... You could get used to the idea that you're not always right. :)
Sorry, darlin', but this is one time where I really really REALLY don't agree with you. If you thought the hybridizers sounded pretentious, you just showed levels of it rivaling the Queen of Narcissism. You're incredibly self-righteous on this issue, and it's very unbecoming of you.

Jussayin'.
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Honey lookit at the first two words that you didn't bold... I said TO ME....to me, in my eyes, in my head, in my opinion, my opinion trumps hybridizers opinions.
Exactly the same as To THEM, THEIR opinions trump mine.

If my own opinions about a subject I feel strongly about don't trump others, TO ME, what's the point of having an opinion at all?

And I never said I wasn't a pretentious self-righteous narcissistic beyotch...just sayin' :)
(HUGS)
 
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