stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

[Vinman]

Well said Vinman!.........Don Soderberg and I were just talking about those very same issues. It's absolutely SPOT-ON!, and I could not agree more.


~Doug

I know what I said is the truth. it is what it is .

Carpe Serpentis there us no benefit of tainting pure stock . Breeders do it out of stupidity. Please call my home I can explain to you in detail. this back and forth on the computer will not give you the whole picture. Your a nice guy with lots of enthusiasm. Right now all you see is pretty snakes.. Take it from this approach it is like being in the military for 6 months and think your able to do the work of a 5 star general

718 792 2593

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I know what I said is the truth. it is what it is .

Carpe Serpentis there us no benefit of tainting pure stock . Breeders do it out of stupidity. Please call my home I can explain to you in detail. this back and forth on the computer will not give you the whole picture. Your a nice guy with lots of enthusiasm. Right now all you see is pretty snakes.. Take it from this approach it is like being in the military for 6 months and think your able to do the work of a 5 star general

718 792 2593

I absolutely love your analogy Vinman as its one I can relate to and it actually made me smile. I think it may be a faulty analogy, but I like it. Unless of course your going at it from the stance of politics and then I very much agree with it. I've seen what happens when you put a private in charge of sergeants and yes, it does happen. You have to deal with the politics quick and fast, but you also have to have a private that is not only proficient enough to be qualified to do be put in charge, but that private has to be able to deal with those internal politics themselves as well to a certain degree.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

:santa:I just read my post and realized I could be coming off as making a counter analogy in my last post. That was certainly not intended. I see some great work being done by purists and hybridizers alike.
I'd also like to add, " I see purdy snakes!!! Oh, so purdy....:santa:

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I wonder if the word "intergrade" rings any bells??

Are intergrades less evil than hybrids? Because quite a few people consider creamsicles intergrades, not hybrids. If I breed greenish rats to corns, would that be an acceptable intergrade because they are a naturally occuring intergrade that happens in the corns natural range (which extends as far north as New Jersey, and overlaps MANY rat snake territories)?

 

[screamindemon17]

I love all the snakes and as for hybreds it does happen in the wild..... U all have great points and i respect them all even though i dont agree with them all. And i leave u all with a SIMPER FIDELES.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Screamindemon, always faithful. I'm assuming you are a marine. My son is a marine as well. Good to meet you.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

OH! I forgot to mention! For Beth and Doug...

Florida panthers and mountain lions are the same species. I just wanted to see how you would respond.

 

[diamondlil]

I know what I said is the truth. it is what it is .

Carpe Serpentis there us no benefit of tainting pure stock . Breeders do it out of stupidity. Please call my home I can explain to you in detail. this back and forth on the computer will not give you the whole picture. Your a nice guy with lots of enthusiasm. Right now all you see is pretty snakes.. Take it from this approach it is like being in the military for 6 months and think your able to do the work of a 5 star general

718 792 2593

For me Carpe is doing a pretty good job of stating his views without getting involved in petty name calling or letting his emotions run away with him. He likes hybrids and finds them valuable and interesting additions to the hobby.
He's being forced to support his views against ridicule and bullying, attempts to ostracise him from the forum and any minute now I'm expecting the villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches to chase him down for the 'crime' of holding a different view to some voiciferous members.
Why in the world should a breeder have to subscribe to keeping corns 'pure'. Unless they were an endangered species in a captive breeding program, intended for release into the wild it makes no sense at all. They are pets, kept for their looks and ease of keeping.
As has been said already, for people who want locality or 'pure' corns, there are breeders who will fulfill their needs. For people who want pretty, hardy, easy to raise snakes, there are millions of corns bred and sold to pet stores that fulfil that criteria, no guarantees on their ancestry. For people who want crazy beautiful evil hybrids, there are breeders producing them with full documentation of the ingredients.
None of those groups can be said to be better than the others in any meaningful way.

 

[diamondlil]

While we're adding in panthers and peacocks and stuff, I've got dogs that would make a show breeder cry with rage. My bedlington/whippet and my working beddy will never make Crufts. And I don't care at all. They are free of the genetic disease that plagues purebred beddies, they are happy active dogs that light up my life. 3 times now I've been asked about studding Bertie by terriermen and a whippet owner but he was neutered before I got him. (edited to add, I don't think my mutts are better than showdogs, they are just more suited to me)

 

[dave partington]

Is it panda time yet?

And yes, I remember that Rich doesn't want a million panda images plastered in a thread, so I found an image with enough baby pandas for everyone!

Ain't Pandas Been Outlawed? R U an Outlaw? Only Outlaws have Gnus.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92881
Is it okay if we all simply link back to your panda pic when the need arises?
I was going to report you but thought it'd be adultish to just ask you instead


(¯`v´¯)
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/▌
/ \

 

[RobbiesCornField]

PAAAAAAANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!!!!!!

 

[Susan]

Ain't Pandas Been Outlawed? R U an Outlaw? Only Outlaws have Gnus.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92881
Is it okay if we all simply link back to your panda pic when the need arises?
I was going to report you but thought it'd be adultish to just ask you instead


(¯`v´¯)
`•.¸.•´
☻/
/▌
/ \

I am fully aware of Rich's stand on frivolous picture posting. If you look at my post, I made a comment about just that. I felt this thread really needed pandas which is why I chose 1 (one) photo that had lots of baby pandas so others wouldn't feel the need to add more.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I am fully aware of Rich's stand on frivolous picture posting. If you look at my post, I made a comment about just that. I felt this thread really needed pandas which is why I chose 1 (one) photo that had lots of baby pandas so others wouldn't feel the need to add more.

... My bad. :grin01:

 

[Kokopelli]

Wow... the thread became heated.
Errr... just wanted to say... I am not a Cornsnake fan(well, I'm kind of am now) but I have posted nothing but Boas for a decent while...(couple of years?) and I was never pointed to the door...(Well, that mostly true anyways, hehehe).

I mean... sure, this is mainly a Cornsnake forum... and it's very plainly visible... the Photo Gallery is for Corns only... whilest Boids are "general chit-chat" ... and I'm really OK with that...

But why should a person be considered a troll for wanting to talk about something he likes?
I mean... it's a bit frustrating, I'd imagine, to reach a point where you see a forum with people you'd like to talk with( and I imagine that's the main reason for posting to begin with... too much thought, I think, is being put into every post of his to make me think differently)- only that the topic you happen to like is shared by a minority....

I mean... Gha, he's not advocating abortions or the Neo-Natzi movement... he just likes hybrid snakes.

So... there are like... TONS of threads with Corns only in'em... why not focus on those?
Even if he's very passionate about hybrids and posts them all the time... he's just one guy, I assure you, he's not hindering the entire forum.

Can you tell me for a fact that over 50% of the people here advocate pure corns only, to the fullest extent? No Ultras, no ultramels, no beast, no single morph that was EVER blamed for being of hybrid origins?

Even if you did manage that, it would take an administrative decision to re-form which topics are OK and which are taboo.​

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Co-habbing evokes strong emotions too… I think it is courteous not to talk about it if you're practicing it… because you know how the thread will end up… but really, that's not how I think things should look like… a co-habber does have the right to talk about it without him being crucified for it.​

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I generally like hearing out people with very different ideas… they either teach me something new or the further persuade me that my original opinion was good, because I remained unconvinced even after hearing the other side of the coin.​

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Yeah yeah I know, nothing will probably change but… I am a deal less stressed out to hear other people's views nowdays because they don't jeopardize mine- this of course is not true for people who voice out hatred and undue criticism… that's not a valid way to express an opinion IMHO.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

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[Christen]

You know the problem isn't him loving hybrids or wanting to talk about them. The problem is he came in this thread swing arms ready to fight for hybrids when this thread has been dead for months. Then went and found any thread about hybrids going back a couple years and made little digs in those as well. Even has brought up hybrids in threads that hybrids weren't even being discussed to state that he loved hybrids. That is it, we get it he likes hybrids. After reading his intro I get why he is so passionate but just like he doesn't want naturalist pushing their views down his throat, they don't want him pushing them down his.

Yes this is a corn snake forum and as you know if you post pictures and discussions in appropriate places everyone seems to welcome it and enjoys them. However if you came in here stating that boas as the only way to go and non stop pushing and not respecting others views on them you would get hit with the same resistance. That being said you have some of the prettiest boas and I hope you don't stop sharing but they are not for me and I appreciate the fact I can look at yours and move on.

 

[Kokopelli]

Hey man...
First off, say it ain't so?! no such thing as Boas being not for you!!

I jest, of course.

All I am saying is...

When I first started out here, I pissed someone off so badly that she opened an entire thread about me, without mentioning my name.​

There's so much "noise" in between what I type and how you interpret me… it's so easy to make errors of judgment.

​

So… sure, maybe you're right and the way you perceive what he says is as he intended it to be… and maybe not…

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I try to go with "innocent until proven otherwise"… I can definitely understand his desire to talk about something he is passionate about and finding no welcoming arms… I can also be mistaken here though… but if that's the case I'll probably realize that soon enough… if constructive criticism has no effect what so ever… I'll understand that that person is more concerned with keeping me on my toes than actually having a discussion.

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My subjective opinion is that his posts are well thought out… too much so to be just another attempt at trolling… and maybe the "post flood" is just him finally finding a place where he can express his love for said animals.

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Invoking dead threads happens from time to time… especially for people who don't use forums often… I doubt it'll happen again after all of this fuss.​

So… people were incredibly… aggressive towards him…

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If I don't like someone, I just leave him alone… it's not right to expect others to "fall in line" with what I think is right… even though I too, make that mistake sometimes, maybe often even.

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JMHO, if I don't like someone, the problem is mine, rather than his… and I can easily circumvent the issue by putting him on ignore list.​

 

[Christen]

NO!! No boas for me.

I understand what you are saying and I had really hoped that would have happened with his last rodeo in this thread but unfortunately actions are speaking louder than words. Of course I know it is a two way street and others are guilty for continuing the argument but really those of us that are prohybrids or even pro Boas and pro Balls have learned to get along with these corn snake "naturalist". Heck some of which are my friends.

I am using the term "naturalist" because that is what he used for the record I think it sound derogatory as well as "hybridizers". Although that is JMO.

 

[Lyion]

Seeeee? We can talk maturely. I'm really happy that pandas calmed everyone down. But I honestly have to agree with both sides here.

I do not think he was trolling and i think some people were truly rude and he also could be truly rude. I don't think he deserves to be attacked though, and I don't think anyone who is willing to listen and do whatever to insure that their snakes are healthy should be.

When it comes down to it, as long as the animal isn't harmed from it, it all comes down to a matter of opinion.

 

[Vinman]

Now I had a 3 hour convo with Carpe Serpentis last night This guy knows a lot about biology and gentics. I clued him in on what going on in the hobby. I also learned a lot from him too. Since then I have not seen him post in this thread. I made a good post a while back and I'm posting it below. It is fair to all views on the hybrid subject. Not just because I wrote it but even if someone else did it just makes good sense. After that I think we all should agree to respect eachothers views and drop it . I like to see a mod lock this thread up because it is getting redundant now to the point that it is just useless chatter. All points have been made over and over to the point this thread is not even interesting any more.

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Bottom line it weather you like them or not Hybrids are here to stay. There is a right way and a wrong way to make hybrids. The wrong way is what screwed up the whole hobby by tainting good bloodlines. It is so hard to find pure animals these days. If anybody does not realize this then your not a true hobbyist. If you are one of the people that say I don't care if they are pure so long as they look pure you have no business in the hobby. Most of these animals you can not get from their country of origin. They have been closed down for many years with out much chances of opening back up again. People like myself want to work with a pure animal then we should have that right to do so . By tainting then lines it makes it impossible to let people like myself to have that option. That is the challenge in breeding pure stock. Once it is tainted there goes the challenge of trying breed a species..

The whole purpose of making hybrids is to create something different . Not to back breed it into a species so no one can tell if it is pure or not. That is a waste of time and ruins the hobby. If you don't care then like I said before you have no business breeding animals. The problem lies with not understanding and having the respect of a species. That was the whole purpose of the hobby to keep pure animals in the pet trade with out having to ravage natural populations and be able to obtain a species once you could no longer get them from where they occur in nature once they were protected or country's closed down the importation . To say I don't care if people back breed and ruin lines is totally selfish. I'm not saying you don't do hybrids but have some respect for the species and the people that want to work with them by taking the responsibility in working with hybrids the right way so not to taint pure stocks. This way eveybody get to enjoy the hobby.

 

[ReptileGeek181]

It's weird that everyone is attacking a person who is stating his opinions and observations knowing that that same person risked his life fighting for our (Americans) freedoms abroad, One of which is freedom of speech. Ironic isn't it?