Obama Youth?

[Roy Munson]

Not sure where I fall on this one yet, but I'll at least address a few things that I have decided on...

...Unfortunately he has made some decisions and run this country in a way that has created even more polar feelings and has shown that he is obviously not the "messiah" we were all promised. What is even more unfortunate (and I say more because I think we all forget that although the President has more media pull, the legislative branch carries the biggest stick on the hill) is that he has a blind herd of sheep that is going to do and vote for just about everything he says in Congress. Be it a liberal or conservative agenda, this country always seems to run best when there is a split in agenda between the President and the Congress. Maybe that's because nothing gets passed and the government grinds to a halt like it should? Hmmmm....

You've made a lot of points. I can't address them all right now. In short: the media suck, and they have for a long time. I agree that things run best when there is more balance between the power and influence of the two major parties. But I don't remember being promised a "messiah." I never expected one. I may be somewhat disappointed in Obama, but its not because I was looking for an infallible savior.

 

[Ricky87]

You post never seem to offer helpful information. At least this time you are attempting to add something to the discussion, congratulations!

dc

I think that's way off base. I haven't even heard from him on this site for months, but when he does post it's either incredibly smart, or ironically funny; sometimes both.

 

[ForkedTung]

Keeping the kiddies home from school...?
Avoiding president Obama's message of "indoctrination"...?

Might I borrow a common phrase from G.W. Bush's Dynasty "unpatriotic".
Oh, That's right it's only unpatriotic when the Republicans say it is...

 

[Camby]

Keeping the kiddies home from school...?
Avoiding president Obama's message of "indoctrination"...?

Might I borrow a common phrase from G.W. Bush's Dynasty "unpatriotic".
Oh, That's right it's only unpatriotic when the Republicans say it is...

You are assuming I consider Barry a patriot? Far from it. Patriot question government and defend it's core, they do not toss aside the constitution this country was founded on and try to establish socialism in this country. I may be wrong but I think he is a socialist and it has been proven time and time again, socialism can not support it's self, eventually it fails. I just hope our politicians listen to the people before it is to late to go back (well, as back as far as we can, maybe the early 90's?)

dc

 

[ForkedTung]

You are assuming I consider Barry a patriot? Far from it. Patriot question government and defend it's core, they do not toss aside the constitution this country was founded on and try to establish socialism in this country. I may be wrong but I think he is a socialist and it has been proven time and time again, socialism can not support it's self, eventually it fails. I just hope our politicians listen to the people before it is to late to go back (well, as back as far as we can, maybe the early 90's?)

dc

The most important poll that occurs every four years had more than 50% of the voting populace agreeing that he is more than a patriot!
Why does the minority always forget about the majority?

 

[Pruddock]

The most important poll that occurs every four years had more than 50% of the voting populace agreeing that he is more than a patriot!
Why does the minority always forget about the majority?

To be quite honest you're making another large assumption that patriotism is what people based their vote on. It may have been that they found his "promises" more appealing than the other guy's. I, for one, think that if it had come down to the sole position of who was more patriotic or cared more for their country and not necessarily on their politics and or their eloquence that John McCain would win hands down. I would never say that a community organizer was more patriotic than a man who fought and was imprisoned for many years defending the very freedoms and patriotism we believe in today.

So, your statement is based on assumptions yet again and as for your argument that the majority feel that Obama is more than patriotic. Let's look at the man you probably love to hate, GW Bush. He, as its already been stated in this thread so I'm not going to dig up a link for you, had a 90% approval rating at one point in time and I'm pretty sure that his polls had BARELY dropped by the time 9/11 happened (which is why he's credited to have achieved such a high popularity) which is about the time we're at right now. What have Obama's been doing this whole time???? Oh, and Bush didn't even win the majority when he was elected. Al Gore (LOLOLOLOLOL) did! So, the majority vote has nothing to do with patriotism. It has to do with politics and campaigning. Forked, please start stating facts and not liberal uke01: and or assumptions.

'preciate it.

PR

 

[ForkedTung]

I actually am the last person to point the "patriotic" finger for or away from anyone.
I just wanted to see what would happen if I invoked a favorite 'argument' used frequently during the Bush dynasty to discredit anything that didn't follow their status quo.

To assume or make the assumption that the people who voted for Obama wouldn't consider him to be a patriot... "makes an ass out of you and ..."
well we'll just leave it at that.
Your factoid:

patriot
Noun
a person who loves his or her country and passionately supports its interests [Greek patris native land]

pa·tri·ot (ptr-t, -t)
n.
One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

* Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
* Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ət, -ˌät, chiefly British ˈpa-trē-ət\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriōtēs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patēr father
* Date: 1605

: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

 

[Pruddock]

Forked. You don't seem to understand or read my posts. I never made the assumption that people didn't think he was a patriot. I said I don't think that patriotism has much to do with politics anymore. If anything, and I think most would agree on this, politicians are in it to push a personal agenda rather than the agenda of what's best for the nation.

Now, resorting to name calling and whatever else you're hoping to imply by leaving the end of that sentence does absolutely nothing for your cause other than lower yourself in the eyes of fellow debaters and show me that you feel threatened and or dumbfounded by my statements. I understand that the last statement is an insinuation, but we ARE on a public forum and I have no idea who YOU are as you sit behind your keyboard so if I'm wrong in my assumption I apologize. So, please revert from name-calling and once again I urge you to press a fact that has more substance than a simple definition of a commonly known and understood word.

Swing and a miss.

PR

 

[ForkedTung]

Forked. You don't seem to understand or read my posts. I never made the assumption that people didn't think he was a patriot. I said I don't think that patriotism has much to do with politics anymore. If anything, and I think most would agree on this, politicians are in it to push a personal agenda rather than the agenda of what's best for the nation.

Now, resorting to name calling and whatever else you're hoping to imply by leaving the end of that sentence does absolutely nothing for your cause other than lower yourself in the eyes of fellow debaters and show me that you feel threatened and or dumbfounded by my statements. I understand that the last statement is an insinuation, but we ARE on a public forum and I have no idea who YOU are as you sit behind your keyboard so if I'm wrong in my assumption I apologize. So, please revert from name-calling and once again I urge you to press a fact that has more substance than a simple definition of a commonly known and understood word.

Swing and a miss.

PR

Calling my posts "liberal vomit" does absolutely nothing for your cause other than lower yourself in the eyes of fellow debaters and show me that you feel threatened and or dumbfounded by my statements.

You need to be able to look in the mirror and find yourself responsible for your own actions before calling another out on theirs.

If you apology is still offered, I accept and would offer one of my own for the insinuation by omission.

 

[Camby]

The most important poll that occurs every four years had more than 50% of the voting populace agreeing that he is more than a patriot!
Why does the minority always forget about the majority?

You need to look at the left or right biased media more often. One thing they do agree on is that less than 50% (46 last I looked) approve of the direction Ole Barry is taking the country. That is a good nit below the majority, 6% I think but my math may be off?

dc

 

[Emanon]

To all people who want to preserve big business as the fourth branch of government, why do you want to ruin it for the rest of us who don't think that's right? America doesn't belong to just you and the large corporations.

I actually think that the Media is the 4th branch.

 

[Roy Munson]

You need to look at the left or right biased media more often. One thing they do agree on is that less than 50% (46 last I looked) approve of the direction Ole Barry is taking the country. That is a good nit below the majority, 6% I think but my math may be off?

dc

Yeah, but W's 25% numbers didn't negate the results of his re-election bid.

 

[Roy Munson]

I actually think that the Media is the 4th branch.

But I'd still assert that the media are PART of big business.

 

[ForkedTung]

I actually think that the Media is the 4th branch.

Agreed! With the fat-pocketed lobbyists much more prevalent than any member of the Senate or House, big business has already infiltrated the other three.

 

[Pruddock]

I once again want to state that WE (myself included and I try not to) all concentrate WAY too much on the man (or, possibly, woman in the near future) in the big chair and on the boot tube and not enough on the other 535 that seem to be able to vote however they want and get off free. That is, WHEN they actually show up to work. These men and women have just as much responsibility as the Pres (more when they are considered one entity) and seem to have half the amount of scrutiny and oversight as the president. I for one have a much bigger issue with Congress right now than the President. That'd be a fun thread topic we could probably find a lot more assimilation on lol

 

[ForkedTung]

You need to look at the left or right biased media more often. One thing they do agree on is that less than 50% (46 last I looked) approve of the direction Ole Barry is taking the country. That is a good nit below the majority, 6% I think but my math may be off?

dc

Right! but as has been illustrated, polls change...that's why I said "The most important poll " that's the one that gave us Obama, like it or not, and precluding unforeseen events, won't change for another three plus years.

 

[Austin M]

"Americans and their military must accept changing coalitions, understand the need for preemptive offense, and prepare for a new kind of war that may increasingly be waged with nonmilitary means. Now is precisely the time to begin making these changes; September 11 is all the proof we need." TRANSFORMING THE MILATARY by Donald H. Rumsfeld Published by the Council on Foreign Relations.

If Obama is the new Hitler the Republican party has paved the way for him to have his own private army. These private Corp. military contracters are working domestically too. Republican followers accepted or were ignorant to privatizing our military when it happened. American Corperate Militaries whose headquarters are in Barbados. Barbados is classified as a "tax-exempt" "corporate entity". You gotta love it, only in America! I wonder if the Republicans are rethinking the idea now that the Democrats are in office? LOL

Michael Ratner of the Center for Constatutional Rights said about these contractars "Their actions may not be subject to constitutional limitations that apply to both federal and state officials and employees - including First Amendment and Fourth Amendment rights to be free from illegal searches and seizures." "These paramilitary groups bring to mind Nazi Party brownshirts, functioning as an extrajudicial enforcement mechanism that can and does operate outside the law."

I find this stuff fascinating, but this countries financial situation is what really scares me though!

By the way, I'm NOT a liberal. That "bad word" liberal label came up and I don't want to be discarded into the "bad word" bucket and never be heard again.

 

[Camby]

Yeah, but W's 25% numbers didn't negate the results of his re-election bid.

What does that have to do with this discussion? We are talking Obama, not Bush.

Right! but as has been illustrated, polls change...that's why I said "The most important poll " that's the one that gave us Obama, like it or not, and precluding unforeseen events, won't change for another three plus years.

Like you state that polls change, those polling numbers changing are driven by peoples opinion changing. Fact is that he is our president but now less than half the people agree with or approve of his performance.

dc

 

[ForkedTung]

Like you state that polls change, those polling numbers changing are driven by peoples opinion changing. Fact is that he is our president but now less than half the people agree with or approve of his performance.

dc

All he needs to do is start a nice little war in some third world country that has oil and he'll be in like Flynn.
After all it won't be his kids fighting it, never is...

 

[Austin M]

I may be wrong but I think he is a socialist and it has been proven time and time again, socialism can not support it's self, eventually it fails.

dc

I agree whole heartedly with this. Full blown socialism can't support itself. I don't believe our version of capitalism can support itself either though. I think 9/11 exposed serious cracks in our financial system. I believe Bush and republicans filled the the cracks with money. It was a false economy then and is a false economy now. The cracks keep getting bigger and Obama is following Bush and republican parties idea of fix it with money instead of fixing it for real. It just keeps taking more and more money to fix. The more they try and fix it with money the worse the economic reset is gonna be. In our version of capitalism politicians, republican or democrat, don't allow a reset when poor financial decisions are made. I don't think the American public can handle a true fix. In my opinion a true fix would mean hefty percentage in the middle class would have to give up their status and become poor. It's gonna happen anyways but the public wouldn't allow an elected leader to allow this reset.

This "garden variety depression" we are in started while Bush was in office. Bush and republicans were preaching "the fundamentals of the economy are sound" while Hank Paulson and Benny B. were in emergency meetings with congress telling them Americas economic system would collapse any day. I'm sorry but you don't get much more right wing republican conservative capitalist then Hank Paulson. Call me gullible, but I believe Hank and Benny were telling the truth when they said our entire economic system was on the brink of collapse.

Republicans and Democrats get their followers all worked up and mad at the other party in public, but behind closed doors I think they are making out with each other!