Obama Youth?

[Austin M]

You know, I still have an old "Presidential Fitness Award" hiding out somewhere. It's signed in the Gipper's own electronic print resource signature font. What was he trying to say? Was he trying to ensure and encourage my fitness for conservative martial law? I never thought so...

What about the green "Just say NO" T-Shirts that were handed out to us after being lectured about the Reagan anti-drug campaign? Were they trying to turn us kids conservative so we didn't look into what Iran Contra was when we grew up? LOL

 

[Camby]

ARGH! I had a really long well thought out response to the "are you ashamed" post and then somehow my CPU crashed.....

So, in short, hell no I am not ashamed, I am responsible for my childrens well being and part of that responsibility is being a "filter" to what they hear, as much as I can. Remember, as stated in my earlier posts, my children are 12 and 5, they are not at the point to make their decisions in their own best interest yet.

What does it say about our president when enough people caused a stink that "forced" them to release his speech to calm everyone down? Was this situation overblown? Not in my opinion, I still stand by the fact that until they are "of age", NO politician has the right to address them directly without me knowing in advance what is to be said or discussed. If others fail to see that as being responsible, then oh well, what can I tell you, we have different views on what a parents requirements are.

I just do not have the energy for these political threads anymore. Fact is I am a conservative christian (have plenty of friends who aren't). I understand alot of how I am is from how I was raised, but a good deal of my perspective and thoughts are from actually working day to day with people who feel they are owed something just because they are American or because things are tough and too me that just shows how LAZY most are. The only guarantee in this country is that you have citizenship if you were born here, all others must be defended and acted upon. There are no easy fixes for the situations we are in, we will have to fight (maybe literally down the road) to protect our freedoms.

No matter your political affiliation, we had all better get our heads out of the sand, or in some cases, out of the president's butt and pay attention to what is going on now. It has really struck me as funny that so many people on this forum and other snake sites have written letters to congress to try and stop reptile bans/law changes because we want to protect our hobby/buisnesses, but I bet not even a third of those same people have written a congresman with concerns over other pending legislation that would take many more rights and liberties not related to reptiles. Can you say Apathy?

dc

 

[mike17l]

As far as those who see this as "indoctrination", or as a similarity to "Hitler", well that's just silly.

Thus says the person, who admittedly knows nothing of Adolf Hitler. Read, then make an informed decision, do not judge on what you think you know.

By that token, everyone who speaks advice to children shares that similarity. Our public schools are disastrous as a whole

There is that broad brush again. Just because you got a crap education and cannot get a job does not mean that every student in America gets a crap education. Though I considered my high school education standard, at best, if not sub standard, I still managed to go to college, graduate, and get a job, as did many of my cohort. Likewise, I teach, are using that broad brush you love so much, to say that I am a crap teacher? despite the fact that you have absolutely no idea.

 

[ForkedTung]

Camby, I think your signature pretty much says it all...
Quoting the confederate 'president' that was later charged with treason whilst he talks about 'beating Sherman and taking the Ohio line' and then being a pro-slavery secessionist that speaks to disregarding the law and then has the gall to speak of "freedom"?
Ah, the good ole days of slavery and civil war where torture was rampant, brothers killed each other and the country was torn apart to appease the Southern rich, white overlords.

 

[tsst]

playing devil's advocate...perhaps, then, we should end all things that take kids away from school studies? No more guest speaker type assemblies, no school spirit rally's, heck...lets get rid of recess.

I wasn't there when the school board voted. I heard the decision second hand. I know they left it open for individual teachers if they wanted to tie it into their lesson plans. Basically the gist of it was that making it mandatory was of little benefit.

Honestly, IMO I think this got oversensationalized. I can agree with some arguments, I disagree with others.

Some people argue that they simply disagree with it because they don't want politicians in schools...despite their political affiliation. For people who truly believe this (and not simply use this argument as a smokescreen) I can see where they are coming from, and they have a valid point. Whether I agree with it or not is beyond the point.

There was also the argument floating around that they felt the speech was coming on too strong...i.e. the whole letter to Obama telling how they can help him (Obama) rather than how they can help the country, etc... I don't think this would have blown up as much had it not been worded so awfully...and then coinciding with Demi Moore's the "servent to the president" thing. Likewise, I can see where these people are coming from, they had a valid argument, it seems the speech was changed in some way to accomodate this. Again, whether I agree with this argument or not is beyond the point.

Then there is the 3rd group...those who are against it solely because he is a democrat and they do not agree with his politics. These are the Rush's of the world. Listening to him nitpick Obama can be, at the best of times, nauseating. I honestly think that had it been a conservative (Palin, Bush, what have you) planning to give this speech he [Limbaugh, et al]would have been all for it. And don't get me wrong...had this been a republican president, I'm sure there would be those hardcore lib's out there complaining just as much. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I did not take this as directed at me but since you quoted me I am curious which of your groups you perceive me to be apart of.

If you recall, this is not the first president to address the student population. President Ronald Reagan gave a speech followed by a Q and A to students...and his speech can appear like right wing propaganda at times as well. And H.W.Bush also made an address to students, and he was also criticized for it being 'propaganda'. But honestly, it's at least partially to be expected...you can't expect anyone to appear totally neutral about everything. Of course a Democrat is going to come across leaning to the left...and of course a republican is going to come across leaning to the right.

So in conclusion...I think much of this was oversensationalized by republicans and conservatives who don't like democrats. Just as I think democrats would oversensationalize the situation if this were a republican president wanting to make the speech.

Good points.

I'm not sure what my opinion is on the situation. I would say that I am not upset about the speech, but I wouldn't defend it as being of the utmost importance either. But perhaps a better way to have handled it was to make it a primetime special where he addresses the students, and the parents can watch it with them and comment on it and talk about their own views, or choose not to have their child watch it at all. That way parents can continue to indoctrinate their children as they see fit.

I like this idea.

And in the respect of full disclosure...I will say that I consider myself somewhere around very liberal to centrist with liberterian tendencies, everything depending on the issue at hand. I think labels are too restricting.

I am very libertarian and sway left or right based solely on the individual issue at hand. I for the most part want as little gov control and involvement as possible while still maintaining a civil society.

 

[KJUN]

There is that broad brush again. Just because you got a crap education and cannot get a job does not mean that every student in America gets a crap education. Though I considered my high school education standard, at best, if not sub standard, I still managed to go to college, graduate, and get a job, as did many of my cohort. Likewise, I teach, are using that broad brush you love so much, to say that I am a crap teacher? despite the fact that you have absolutely no idea.

For the record, I've always believed that you get out what you want from an education. Bad students come from great schools and great students come from bad school. You get what you want. There are free libraries where you can learn on your own if that is your desire. I could give examples, but I don't think anyone can reasonable argue with this summation. If you get a bad education, it is because that is what you put into it: bad effort. If you got no help from home, that is bad parenting - not bad schools.

Don't expect a school to force knowledge into you against your will or remove knowledge from your head that you've learned on your own. You education level is only due to what YOU learned - not the school. I'm not saying it isn't easier or harder to get a good education in one school versus another (because it is easier in a good school)! What I am saying is if you are uneducated (and I don't mean a degree - I mean your body of knowledge), it is because you are unintelligent (blame the lord or your parents for that one) or lazy (blame YOURSELF - and ONLY yourself - for being to lazy to learn on your own for this one). Either way, the school is only an aide. Ultimately, the student is responsible for what they do or do not take away from a structured system.

With that said, the "no student left behind" program IS the worst thing to ever happen to American education systems. Dumb down the sharp sticks instead of challenging the dull ones is NOT the way to make a tool. The idea that nobody should be allowed to fail IS a faling idea in and of itself. "None left behind" is equivalent to saying "none allowed to exceed." This makes it even more important that students use their own drive to become the best that they can - and NOT depend on someone to spoonfeed them canned knowledge!

 

[The_Thunderer]

For the record, I've always believed that you get out what you want from an education. Bad students come from great schools and great students come from bad school. You get what you want. There are free libraries where you can learn on your own if that is your desire. I could give examples, but I don't think anyone can reasonable argue with this summation. If you get a bad education, it is because that is what you put into it: bad effort. If you got no help from home, that is bad parenting - not bad schools.

Don't expect a school to force knowledge into you against your will or remove knowledge from your head that you've learned on your own. You education level is only due to what YOU learned - not the school. I'm not saying it isn't easier or harder to get a good education in one school versus another (because it is easier in a good school)! What I am saying is if you are uneducated (and I don't mean a degree - I mean your body of knowledge), it is because you are unintelligent (blame the lord or your parents for that one) or lazy (blame YOURSELF - and ONLY yourself - for being to lazy to learn on your own for this one). Either way, the school is only an aide. Ultimately, the student is responsible for what they do or do not take away from a structured system.

With that said, the "no student left behind" program IS the worst thing to ever happen to American education systems. Dumb down the sharp sticks instead of challenging the dull ones is NOT the way to make a tool. The idea that nobody should be allowed to fail IS a faling idea in and of itself. "None left behind" is equivalent to saying "none allowed to exceed." This makes it even more important that students use their own drive to become the best that they can - and NOT depend on someone to spoonfeed them canned knowledge!

I agree with you. I can see this in the kids I have. There are the ones that go above and beyond to make sure they get good grades and there are those that do just enough to get a passing grade... and then there are those that don't care. In our "house", if someone doesn't get a C or better, they HAVE to see a tutor. You won't believe how many of these kids blame the TEACHER!!! Of course the fact that they haven't turned in over 50% of the homework assignments has NOTHING to do with their failing the class... it is the teacher's fault.

One of my kids actually liked a teacher... had nothing BAD to say about him. Then she got a bad grade and its, "Oh, he's a nice guy, but he can't teach." LOL. Yeah, right.

I wonder when "lazy in the brain" became so prominent in our kids? :awcrap:

 

[mike17l]

I agree with you. I can see this in the kids I have. There are the ones that go above and beyond to make sure they get good grades and there are those that do just enough to get a passing grade... and then there are those that don't care. In our "house", if someone doesn't get a C or better, they HAVE to see a tutor. You won't believe how many of these kids blame the TEACHER!!! Of course the fact that they haven't turned in over 50% of the homework assignments has NOTHING to do with their failing the class... it is the teacher's fault.

One of my kids actually liked a teacher... had nothing BAD to say about him. Then she got a bad grade and its, "Oh, he's a nice guy, but he can't teach." LOL. Yeah, right.

I wonder when "lazy in the brain" became so prominent in our kids? :awcrap:

I see that everyday. If any of my students ever put "IDK" on anything, I give them a '0' for that grade. I do not accept their work when they give up that easy.

 

[Pruddock]

Somewhat off topic...

I just got finished teaching my first class ever (TAMU HIST 350) and it went really well. Professor new I was interested in a topic outside of my class studies and approached me about teaching the subject to the class (which I'm hoping will score me points later on lol). Got great feedback from the Professor and a few of the students approached me afterwards about my speaking style, debate style, and the material itself and had nothing but good things to say. Whoop! It was a lot of fun. Never saw myself as enjoying teaching but I have to admit it would be a fun thing to do later in life

 

[Camby]

Camby, I think your signature pretty much says it all...
Quoting the confederate 'president' that was later charged with treason whilst he talks about 'beating Sherman and taking the Ohio line' and then being a pro-slavery secessionist that speaks to disregarding the law and then has the gall to speak of "freedom"?
Ah, the good ole days of slavery and civil war where torture was rampant, brothers killed each other and the country was torn apart to appease the Southern rich, white overlords.

So now I am a racisist due to my signature? When it used to have a Ben Franklin quote was I also unpatriotic, after all, he "bit the hand that fed him"...England. Same for Washington and John Adams, surely they were unpatriotic and racisit, after all they had slaves and servanst and they questioned even an AMERICAN government. Better yet, would you rather I change it to an Abraham Lincoln quote, even though he was a white supremisist and thought nearly every other race was beneath the white man, his picture is in nearly evey American public school.


This post may get booted, but after reading your comments above, it is obvious you have never even cracked open a true US History book. All I can say after reading your comments is that you likely have two brain cells and they have probably NEVER had a conversation. You are worse than the other guy who posts meaningless drivel on threads. Funny thing is I am not upset by your comments (in regards to "attacking" me), I am more upset that you of all people do not have to take a test to prove you are smart enough to vote and live in this country.

As far as "torture being rampant", do you think that was solely happening on one side of the war? News flash hot shot, it happened on both sides and still happens in wars today, like it or not, it happens.

Oh and by the way "speaks of disregarding the law and has the gall to speak of freedom". Are you so ignorant that you think our laws are what provide and secure our freedoms? North Korea has a crap load of laws I am sure, I wonder what kind of freedoms they have by upholding the laws? I abide by laws and think they ARE necessary, but because I question some of them doesn't insinuate I am questioning freedom, lol. I used to think you were more of a court jester type, but the more I read of your posts, I am starting to think you really are an true idiot in every sense of the term. I guess it is a good thing the founding fathers and so many other countries didn't have your logic huh, if they did, we would still be colonies rather than states and countries. I guess being a Tory would have been more to your liking. Do you know what a tory is? No, no, no, it isn't the hot chick you went to gym class with.

dc

 

[Michael823]

Thus says the person, who admittedly knows nothing of Adolf Hitler. Read, then make an informed decision, do not judge on what you think you know.



There is that broad brush again. Just because you got a crap education and cannot get a job does not mean that every student in America gets a crap education. Though I considered my high school education standard, at best, if not sub standard, I still managed to go to college, graduate, and get a job, as did many of my cohort. Likewise, I teach, are using that broad brush you love so much, to say that I am a crap teacher? despite the fact that you have absolutely no idea.

This is where these political threads go off topic, and usually turn into a poo throwing contest. I will not bother adding to this thread, as this will most likely be the grounds of every response. I left a completely non-personal post, which stated things as a whole, in my opinion.

"Just because you got a crap education and cannot get a job does not mean that every student in America gets a crap education"

Why does everything you post become personal. I said that "public schools
as a whole were disastrous". I said absolutely nothing about you as a teacher, or myself as a student. It's not even the education of our schools that's the problem, it is mostly the students. My point was that there is "indoctrination" at every level of public schools, coming mostly from other kids, which is, in my opinion, far worse a threat than a presidential speech. Public schools as a whole have become a day care center, and teachers can't just teach, as they are now forced to be babysitters for misbehaved students. Simple point really, there was no need to get personal.

"Likewise, I teach, are using that broad brush you love so much, to say that I am a crap teacher? despite the fact that you have absolutely no idea"

See above. Where did I say anything about you as a teacher? To me, I think you are looking to find something to take offense to in a Michael823 post.

 

[ForkedTung]

Ah yes Camby, insults... very, very classy. You should be proud of yourself.
My posts have been called 'liberal vomit' and I responded in kind but I won't even bother to respond to your childish and petty slams against me. Your words speak for themselves and demonstrate your character (or lack thereof).
As another poster so eloquently put it in this thread your words do absolutely nothing for your cause other than lower yourself in the eyes of fellow debaters and show me that you feel threatened and or dumbfounded by my statements.

So now I am a racisist due to my signature

If you say so.
The historical figures you mention did not fight to preserve slavery and advocate killing fellow Americans in order to do so. Your guy did, another reason for you to be proud.
Your North Korean analogy is obscure and reaching, at best.
I say Apathy!

ps)

You are worse than the other guy who posts meaningless drivel on threads.

nicely worded passive/aggressive comment here. Dale has forgotten more than you could hope to learn.

 

[tyflier]

Wait, wait...let me see if I got this straight...

Obama calls into action a plan that strives to keep kids in school and to initiate a plan of action that will put education and self-fulfillment as a top priority for our youth...and he gets compared to Hitler?? Really?? I don't even need to read the rest of this topic. I can stop at the very first post to call garbage on that. It's pretty ridiculous.

Let me see...4 years ago we were told if we didn't keep our mouths shut and just let the government "take care of everything"...we were unpatriotic. If we questioned the president or his administration's HORRIBLE decisions, we were immediately put ona government "watchlist". If your skin was the wrong color, religion the wrong god, and your parents from the wrong counmtry, you were at HIGH risk of being imprisoned with no charges, no formal hearing, and absolutrely no rights in a PRISON CAMP...

But ask some kids to write a letter describing how they can help this country, this economy, and themselves through education and you get compared to Hitler??

Some of the people on this website are truly, truly, TRULY blinded by their own agendas, and by a bi-partisam attempt to thwart ANY and ALL efforts made at growth, advancement and improvement.

And don't bother responding to me directly because I refuse to sift through drivel and propoganda to read an insult. Absolutely one of the most ridiculous opebning posts I have ever read on this website...

 

[KJUN]

"Oh, he's a nice guy, but he can't teach." LOL. Yeah, right.

Although some people can't teach, my first response is usually, "S/he can't teach or you can't learn?" This is why I like COllege - I can say, "don't you have a book?" and look at THEM silly until they answer. My policy when i student comes talk to me is to ask them (1) have you reviewed the notes and (2) have you read the sections of the book that pertain to the portion of the notes that are troubling you? If they have, then I try my best to remove any confusion they still might have. If they have not, I grab the book and the notes and SHOW them which sections deal with their questions, lightly try to explain it in a more simple way, send them on their way to reaad the book and notes, and give them instructions to COME BACK and talk to me about it again after they read and think about the simplified explaination I just provided.

Again, I loved reaing your post. I can't agree more - it is the teacher's fault and not the student who doesn't TRY to learn. They expect a good teacher to get the knowledge into their braid via diffusion. Hmmm, I never thought about that expression, but some of these kids really do have an area of low concentration of knowledge in their heads.....lol.

Never saw myself as enjoying teaching but I have to admit it would be a fun thing to do later in life

The more I do it, the more I love it, P. I could see you doing it. I think you'd do a decent job, too. Kudos for enjoying it. My fiorst teach was in high scool. I tested out of Freshman physical sciences, and then I took all the sciences pretty early in high school. By my last year, I had taken all the physics, inorganic chemistry, environmental science, etc. I was bored. I took frehman physical science as a joke because I liked the instructor (Coach Harry Williams) a lot. It was fun. One day, he made a joke that I should be able to teach it, and I joked back, "No worse than you, Coach." He called my bluff and told me to get my butt up there then. After that, he'd just tell me to lecture when he was tired. I because the "unofficial teacher's aide" and graded exams and everything for him. Coach really did more to lean me towards teaching than anyone else. Him and mom grew up together, and so there was a lot of familiar friendship to make the relationship even more enjoyable for both of us. Coach is in administration now, but I used to go to the old high school and visit him when I was in town - just like I did parents and grandparents. Anyway, teaching IS a good feeling, isn't it, P?

"Just because you got a crap education and cannot get a job does not mean that every student in America gets a crap education"

I might be wrong, but I read that as the plural "you" and not the singular "you," Michael. Not trying to defend Mike or speak for him, but I know I've vbeen mistaken mroe than once for attacking someone personally when I meant the grammatically correct plural you....and not the individual.

 

[tyflier]

Fred, I think only the smart people will do anything to protect their kids from indoctrination....and maybe not even the smart people but just the people who are paying attention.....

RIDICULOUS!!!

I would MUCH rather protect my children from a government that believes itself to be all powerful and ABOVE the people rather than FOR the people.

Only the "smart ones"?? Listen, sweetheart...I've been paying attention for the last 10 years. Let me be frank...there is NOTHING that scares me about Obama, or his plans. EVERYTHING scared me about G-dubya. EVERYTHING scaerd me about the other moron that ran against Obama. What was him name...G-dubya Jr.? Oh yea...McCain...puppet to the worst president and Vice-president in HISTPRY. Puppet of the republican REGIME that ran this country into the ground and got us stuck in a war...

Nevermind. If you don't know what's been going on over the last ten years, instead of just the alst 6 months...I'm not gonna waste any more breath explaining it to you. Some people will believe any ridiculous amount of propoganda fed to them, as long as the right partisan politician feeds it to you.

Listen...turn off the FOX network, and go back and really, REALLY read some of the newspaper articles that came out when Bush was [president. In fact, do yourself a favor, and read some FOREIGN news reports of what hapened in our country during the last regime.

Than come back and cry about our current president trying to institute a love of education and country.

Hmm...if I don't support an idiot president starting a war for personal gain and financial reasons under false pretenses, and publicly LYING about it, I am not patriotic, and I belong in a prison camp as a terrorist.

But if I support a president that tries to help my kids become educated, stay in school, and actually recieve a reasonable level of medical care regardless of income...I'm a nazi...

Hilarious. Actually, not funny...scary. Really scary...

 

[starsevol]

RIDICULOUS!!!

I would MUCH rather protect my children from a government that believes itself to be all powerful and ABOVE the people rather than FOR the people.

Only the "smart ones"?? Listen, sweetheart...I've been paying attention for the last 10 years. Let me be frank...there is NOTHING that scares me about Obama, or his plans. EVERYTHING scared me about G-dubya. EVERYTHING scaerd me about the other moron that ran against Obama. What was him name...G-dubya Jr.? Oh yea...McCain...puppet to the worst president and Vice-president in HISTPRY. Puppet of the republican REGIME that ran this country into the ground and got us stuck in a war...

Nevermind. If you don't know what's been going on over the last ten years, instead of just the alst 6 months...I'm not gonna waste any more breath explaining it to you. Some people will believe any ridiculous amount of propoganda fed to them, as long as the right partisan politician feeds it to you.

Listen...turn off the FOX network, and go back and really, REALLY read some of the newspaper articles that came out when Bush was [president. In fact, do yourself a favor, and read some FOREIGN news reports of what hapened in our country during the last regime.

Than come back and cry about our current president trying to institute a love of education and country.

Hmm...if I don't support an idiot president starting a war for personal gain and financial reasons under false pretenses, and publicly LYING about it, I am not patriotic, and I belong in a prison camp as a terrorist.

But if I support a president that tries to help my kids become educated, stay in school, and actually recieve a reasonable level of medical care regardless of income...I'm a nazi...

Hilarious. Actually, not funny...scary. Really scary...

I stand by my statement. SMART people DO protect their children from indoctination. The ones that aren't too overworked or tired from working all those hours to pay their taxes and keep their heads above water. The ones that have the time and are not too exhausted to download what Obama had to say and look it over before blindly sending the kids to school.
So far Obama has spent more in his 9 months in office than Bush AND EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT since this nation was founded.
If THAT does not scare you....I don't know what can.

And, for a guy who's run on "Change"...what has he changed exactly? How are things different now than they were under Bush? MY life has not changed one bit.... Are we still in Iraq? Afgahanistan? And if we still are, why are we? Can it be Mr Obama does not want that to "change"?

As far as the "propaganda" I have been fed, I live in one of the most liberal states in the country that is run by only one political party. We actually have elections with NO opposition because any Republican, Libertarian or any other party knows there is not a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. I don't listen to talk radio (unless you count the Money Show, but that is non politcal and has to do with investing and personal finance). I don't watch Fox News...don't even know what channel it's on.
So, don't ASSUME ANYTHING about ME!

 

[KJUN]

Hilarious. Actually, not funny...scary. Really scary...

If a word of that was actually true, I'd vote for a socialist-democratic president, too!

 

[starsevol]

And, while we are on the subject...ONE man does not have all the power...
So...you found Bush terrifying...did you?
So...people find Obama terrifying...
Well, the people who scare ME are the members of the House and Senate.

If THOSE people would do the job we ELECTED them to do...you know....like actually READ the legislation that crosses their desks and UNDERSTAND what they are actually voting for, they could have protected us from alot of Bush's boneheaded decisions. One man cannot destroy a country all by himself, he needs helpers. These guys don't read what they vote on. If they did, and were subject to the same laws, Healthcare, and EVERYTHING else the American people are subjected to, no one would EVER have to fear a President of this country!

 

[mike17l]

But ask some kids to write a letter describing how they can help this country, this economy, and themselves through education and you get compared to Hitler??

You know, if that was all that happened that would have great, and I personally would have had no problem with it. But, the fact is, the lesson plans supplied by the DOE were not that, they were in fact very different from what was finally put out. If you had taken time to read anything in this thread or the link, you might have found that out.

the republican REGIME that ran this country into the ground and got us stuck in a war...

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Barrak Obama vote for that war? along with the majority of the left.

 

[mike17l]

I might be wrong, but I read that as the plural "you" and not the singular "you," Michael. Not trying to defend Mike or speak for him, but I know I've vbeen mistaken mroe than once for attacking someone personally when I meant the grammatically correct plural you....and not the individual.

Comprehension.