Obama Youth?

[mike17l]

And, while we are on the subject...ONE man does not have all the power...
So...you found Bush terrifying...did you?
So...people find Obama terrifying...
Well, the people who scare ME are the members of the House and Senate.

If THOSE people would do the job we ELECTED them to do...you know....like actually READ the legislation that crosses their desks and UNDERSTAND what they are actually voting for, they could have protected us from alot of Bush's boneheaded decisions. One man cannot destroy a country all by himself, he needs helpers. These guys don't read what they vote on. If they did, and were subject to the same laws, Healthcare, and EVERYTHING else the American people are subjected to, no one would EVER have to fear a President of this country!

TERM LIMITS!

 

[tyflier]

I stand by my statement. SMART people DO protect their children from indoctination. The ones that aren't too overworked or tired from working all those hours to pay their taxes and keep their heads above water.
So far Obama has spent more in his 9 months in office than Bush AND EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT since this nation was founded.
If THAT does not scare you....I don't know what can.

And, for a guy who's run on "Change"...what has he changed exactly? How are things different now than they were under Bush? MY life has not changed one bit.... Are we still in Iraq? Afgahanistan? And if we still are, why are we? Can it be Mr Obama does not want that to "change"?

As far as the "propaganda" I have been fed, I live in one of the most liberal states in the country that is run by only one political party. We actually have elections with NO opposition because any Republican, Libertarian or any other party knows there is not a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. I don't listen to talk radio (unless you count the Money Show, but that is non politcal and has to do with investing and personal finance). I don't watch Fox News...don't even know what channel it's on.
So, don't ASSUME ANYTHING about ME!

Oh, I get it...give Obama 6 months to fix Bush's 8 years of mistakes. If he can't...he's worthless. But Bush managed to run the economy into the ground, imprison US citizens, and START the bogus war...and that's ok...

Talk about indoctrination. You've BEEN indoctrinated...just not by Obama...

 

[KJUN]

what has he changed exactly? How are things different now than they were under Bush?

Well, a white hating president has made racism more of a PROBLEM now than it has ever been in my adult life. Bringing the sides together? Ha! He has done more to make race an issue - and MAKE the problem worse - than anyone else. He definitely acts like the biggest racist to hold office in the last 50+ years. Shrug?

What else is new? Well, (aside from all the obvious taxes) before Obama I didn't know that I was just LUCKY to make more money because I paid may way through multiple degrees. I thought I earned it through hard work and being very well qualified for my jobs. I didn't know it was just LUCK that I made more than a drop-out who drank beer on the corner all day. Now, I know I should give my "lucky earnings" to those that weren't as lucky. Hard work has nothing to do with success. That's a new thing I learned! See? We have learned a lot from our inspirational leader.

I don't watch Fox News...don't even know what channel it's on.
So, don't ASSUME ANYTHING about ME!

I agree. Don't watch Fox. They still lean too left to report honestly. What can you do, though, when primary ownership is in the hands of democrats? The problem is hat fox isn't as left as the opthers. It is still TOO left, though.

 

[mike17l]

Oh, I get it...give Obama 6 months to fix Bush's 8 years of mistakes. If he can't...he's worthless. But Bush managed to run the economy into the ground, imprison US citizens, and START the bogus war...and that's ok...

Like I said.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Barrak Obama vote for that war? along with the majority of the left.

 

[starsevol]

Oh, I get it...give Obama 6 months to fix Bush's 8 years of mistakes. If he can't...he's worthless. But Bush managed to run the economy into the ground, imprison US citizens, and START the bogus war...and that's ok...

Talk about indoctrination. You've BEEN indoctrinated...just not by Obama...

So, you are saying that to fix Bush's 8 years of mistakes, Obama had to spend more than EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY??

And like I said, Bush did not start that bogus war alone....you blame one where hundreds are at fault. (You know how Government works, right?)

 

[KJUN]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Barrak Obama vote for that war? along with the majority of the left.

Liar. Bush faked the vote. He single-handledly tricked all of Congress. He faked the info. Forget that what convinced him to invade was the same info that convinced most of Congress. Remember: the president can't declare war...never mind - FORGET THAT, TOO!

Bush was wrong for getting tricked. The democrats were right for getting tricked. That should make sense now. Obama has moved withdrawal back "practically indefinitely" and that is good. Bush was bad for having them there that long, though. That should make sense, too.

Reagon boosted the economy. Liberalism under Clinton started the crash. It was Bush's fault. That is as it should be. Obama's taxing businesses to the point of costing them salary budgets and scaring everyone else into being too concerned to make a healthy economy is also Bush's fault. Bush would be against Obama'spolicies, but it is still his fault that those type of policies don't work now - or never HAVE worked anywhere in history.

 

[Michael823]

Again, I loved reaing your post. I can't agree more - it is the teacher's fault and not the student who doesn't TRY to learn. They expect a good teacher to get the knowledge into their braid via diffusion. Hmmm, I never thought about that expression, but some of these kids really do have an area of low concentration of knowledge in their heads.....lol.

Agreed 100%. This is actually the basis of why I think the public school system is disastrous, and why I find the outrage over the Obama speech a little overblown. There isn't enough control given to teachers, and too much responsibility.
It is the parents role to teach their child fundamentals they believe in, and up to the teachers to teach. A simple Obama speech, agreed with or not, should not scare so many parents. I really don't see how a speech encouraging children to learn and be responsible is a bad thing, though people have the right to not want their children to be subjected to watching a political speech during school hours. Parents have all of the leverage, or at least should, over what basic principles their children learn. Obama could never undo a lifetime of parental advice in one speech, or even a thousand.

 

[Camby]

Ah yes Camby, insults... very, very classy. You should be proud of yourself.[/COLOR]

Actually I am, especially the "you likely only have two brain cell" comment. Probably no one will admit it, but I am sure it got laughs. However, let's not be coy and pretend your "inuendo" isn't just as classless. Surely you wouldn't expect me or anyone else to think you didn't have an intended meaning? Heck, even I am more intelligent than that. You knew full well what you were insinuating, give yourself a little more credit than you are, it is ok to be a smart a$$ sometimes.

My posts have been called 'liberal vomit' and I responded in kind but I won't even bother to respond to your childish and petty slams against me. Your words speak for themselves and demonstrate your character (or lack thereof).

First, they are called "liberal vomit" because that is what they are (in my and obviously a few others opinion). Doesn't mean it is wrong or right for either of us, but fact is I am entitled to my beliefs and opinions and that is my opinion of your post, they are liberal vomit.

Secondly, you are right, I resulted into throwing out some childish remarks. I still stand on the opinion some were funny. Either way, funny or not, I also still stand that you do not know true US and probably world history. Your original comments support that view.

As another poster so eloquently put it in this thread your words do absolutely nothing for your cause other than lower yourself in the eyes of fellow debaters and show me that you feel threatened and or dumbfounded by my statements.

OK, maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. I am betting that my small tirade and your so o"eloquent" response did nothing to help or hurt wither of us in the others eyes.

If you say so.
The historical figures you mention did not fight to preserve slavery and advocate killing fellow Americans in order to do so. Your guy did, another reason for you to be proud.

Again, you know nothing of our history and don't seem to really want to educate yourself. You seem to just keep repeating similar content. I am not 100% sure NONE of the figures I referenced advocated killing fellow Americans, but they also accepted the fact that if those fellow "americans" stood in the way of the greater good, they were dealt with by necessary means and that included death. Do you think our Continental Army only faught British troops in that war? What fantasy version are you studying. Some Americans remained loyal to the British and they died for that be it in war or privately.

For the record, I think slavery is wrong. However, in the contrext of this "discussion", if the figures I referenced did not fight to maintain slavery, then why did they not eliminate it with the break from England??????? Do you want the truth? I am suprised to this day that blacks Americans (those born into this country) celebrate the 4th of July. The original articles of independance DID eliminate slavery. However, the southern colonies were dependant on slave labor to harvest and work thier crops, SO, SC said "no go", we can not survive without slave labor, if it is abolished, then we remain with England. Georgia and Virginia then said "wait, if they don't go, we don't go, we need their support to win the war and we also need slave labor, soon there were enough colonies unwilling to leave England's side due to slavery. SO, the present Decleration of Independance does not abolish slavery. How many people truly know that? It always seems funny to me the number of people upset over the Confederate Naval flag, yet they celebrate 4th of July with no qualms. You tell me, which is the lesser offense, the flag or an entire nations leaders turning thier back on blacks????????

So, maybe many of our beloved historical figures did not "fight" to maintain slavery, but I am not sure what is worse, the fact they didn't fight to keep it or the fact that many felt it wasn't an issue worth "fighting" over with their own countrymen. Again, which is the lesser of the two evils. In my opinion, both are reprehinsible, but it is what has formed our country?

Oh, and why did the "Great Emancipator" take two years to draft the Emancipation Proclomation? If the war was being fought over slavery, why wasn't that article drafted almost immediately after SC secceded? Not that you will, but dig and you will find that answer also. You can never trust ANY politician of ANY party.

Lastly, you call Davis "your guy". Remember, you have not once asked if I supported him and the south, you automatically have assumed since I live in SC and have him in my signature (John Adams had been there for nearly a year) that he is "my guy" So that I don't jump to conclusions again, why don't you elaborate further as to why he is "my guy" and that he advocated killing of Americans and I should be proud. Tell me exactly what you are saying, don't leave it up to interpretation. I guess if we are taking it to North vs South jibes, then if Davis is "my guy" , then you get the scurge of the earth W.T. Sherman? For the recored though, if I were to have "my Guy" from the Southern Side of the war, it would be Longstreet.

Your North Korean analogy is obscure and reaching, at best.
I say Apathy!

ps) nicely worded passive/aggressive comment here. Dale has forgotten more than you could hope to learn

Maybe you think it is reaching but it is accurate none the less.

Also, funny you automatically asumed I meant him in my comment. I never called his name in the last post, you did! Also funny is that my inuendo there was very similar to your original inuendo about my signature, lol.

I am not sure where you wanted the "Apathy" statement applied, sorry?:shrugs:
I am calling a truce or taking my ball and going home or whatever you want to call it. Arguing with you is like arguing with my 12 year old daughter, there is no logic to it, it irritates me because she knows that if she keeps saying the same thing over and over I will eventually become bored and leave her to her illogical thoughts. Difference is though, I can ground her, you I can only unsubscribe from.

dc

 

[Camby]

Liar. Bush faked the vote. He single-handledly tricked all of Congress. He faked the info. Forget that what convinced him to invade was the same info that convinced most of Congress. Remember: the president can't declare war...never mind - FORGET THAT, TOO!

Bush was wrong for getting tricked. The democrats were right for getting tricked. That should make sense now. Obama has moved withdrawal back "practically indefinitely" and that is good. Bush was bad for having them there that long, though. That should make sense, too.

Reagon boosted the economy. Liberalism under Clinton started the crash. It was Bush's fault. That is as it should be. Obama's taxing businesses to the point of costing them salary budgets and scaring everyone else into being too concerned to make a healthy economy is also Bush's fault. Bush would be against Obama'spolicies, but it is still his fault that those type of policies don't work now - or never HAVE worked anywhere in history.

And don't forget, the democrats have controlled congress for over 2 years now and they are the ones voting to keep us at war. Of course when Bush was in office, that was all HIS doing and not the dims in congress. The problem with the deomcratic party is tht they do not operate under the premisis of a "democracy". It is either their way or no way, maybe they should change their party name to the "dictator" party?

Democrats unwritten policy "give me a major problem in this country and I'll find someone out of our party to pin the blame on. Seriously, just try us, we can do it"!

dc

 

[tyflier]

You know, if that was all that happened that would have great, and I personally would have had no problem with it. But, the fact is, the lesson plans supplied by the DOE were not that, they were in fact very different from what was finally put out. If you had taken time to read anything in this thread or the link, you might have found that out.



Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Barrak Obama vote for that war? along with the majority of the left.

Yes...based on lies and false "intelligence", which the Party in power KNEW were lies, false, and outdated, yet failed to mention until AFTER they were out of office and out of power.

See...I watched VP Cheney admit that the reports they used were false. I watched him admit that they had NO EVIDENCE to support an invasion of Iraq. I watched him admit that the administration that he was a part of failed miserably in their "war on terrorism". Perhaps you missed that broadcast?

Like I said...I get enough propoganda...I don't NEED to read this thread to know what every argument you have is. It's al propoganda.

Now...don't get it twisted...I know there is a lot of propoganda on BOTH sides of the fence. But...I will ALWAYS side with the defense of Civil Liberties, and NEVER side against them.

If you wanna get mad at the government for trying to control you...get mad about them trying to control your thoughts, your actions, and your convictions...not the cost of your medical care or the level of education we have in this country which, in case you forgot, is laughable on it's BEST day.

Things HAVE changed. The economy is better. It's not good...but it's better...and getting better still. Education is in the crapper...but the efforts to make it better are being thwarted by comparing it to indoctrination and Hitler. Health Care has been in MAJOR need of reformation and restructuring since Clinton left office. But any effort made to fix it and make it better is called socialism.

You don't want change. You want a country free of poor, homeless, and down-trodden, where you can be free to make as much money off the backs and labor of "lesser people" as you can. You want a country where the rich get richer and the poor die trying. You want a country where you cannot afford to live unless you eat with a silver spoon.

You would rather believe that our government is trying to kill old people and destroy babies, than strive for a different future. You would rather thwart efforts at change by yelling "SOCIALISM" at the top of your lungs, than actually give the changes a chance to be implemented and see if it works. You would rather imprison US citizens with no charges, no trial, and no evidence than allow a poor, homeless child the chance at the same level of medical care that you pay $1,000 a month for.

I hate people...

 

[Camby]

Agreed 100%. This is actually the basis of why I think the public school system is disastrous, and why I find the outrage over the Obama speech a little overblown. There isn't enough control given to teachers, and too much responsibility.
It is the parents role to teach their child fundamentals they believe in, and up to the teachers to teach. A simple Obama speech, agreed with or not, should not scare so many parents. I really don't see how a speech encouraging children to learn and be responsible is a bad thing, though people have the right to not want their children to be subjected to watching a political speech during school hours. Parents have all of the leverage, or at least should, over what basic principles their children learn. Obama could never undo a lifetime of parental advice in one speech, or even a thousand.

I may be wrong, but no one said his speech was wrong and don't forget, his speech wasn't released until the day before it was to be made. This whole thread started prior to that. At the time, all we knew is that he asked students to write letters telling how they could help the President, not how he could help them and that the president was going to address the countries students. That is the point, not that the speech was good or bad.

dc

 

[tyflier]

So, you are saying that to fix Bush's 8 years of mistakes, Obama had to spend more than EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY??

And like I said, Bush did not start that bogus war alone....you blame one where hundreds are at fault. (You know how Government works, right?)

Yes, deary. In order to drag our country out of the DEEPEST FINANCIAL PIT IN HISTORY...it took some cash. At least you got THAT part right... oke:

 

[tyflier]

And don't forget, the democrats have controlled congress for over 2 years now and they are the ones voting to keep us at war. Of course when Bush was in office, that was all HIS doing and not the dims in congress. The problem with the deomcratic party is tht they do not operate under the premisis of a "democracy". It is either their way or no way, maybe they should change their party name to the "dictator" party?

Democrats unwritten policy "give me a major problem in this country and I'll find someone out of our party to pin the blame on. Seriously, just try us, we can do it"!

dc

They are voting to keep us there with a timeline for removal. Hmm...someone starts a war with NO exit strategy that everyone supports while he is in office, but you cry foul when the next guy can't do it in 6 months? Do you realize the state of emergency that will ensue if the US backs out of this war at this moment? Those countries are in their miost unstable state in their histories, as is usually the case during a change of this nature...and you expect us to just pack up and leave, no support, no institutions, and no government in place.

And people wonder why this couintry is in such dire straits. It's because people do not see past the wart on the front of their nose, and mose of the replies in this topic reflect precisely that...

And KJUN...do you really believe the things you write? If so...I'm sorry for you. You are so far off base on most of your replies, that I can't even begin to dissect what you have gathered from conspiracy theory websites and what you discussed with Joe the Plumber over a 6-pack...

 

[mike17l]

Yes...based on lies and false "intelligence", which the Party in power KNEW were lies, false, and outdated, yet failed to mention until AFTER they were out of office and out of power.

See...I watched VP Cheney admit that the reports they used were false. I watched him admit that they had NO EVIDENCE to support an invasion of Iraq. I watched him admit that the administration that he was a part of failed miserably in their "war on terrorism". Perhaps you missed that broadcast?

Honestly, I did not see it, but if it did happen, if it did, who is in control now, and why are we there now? Who is controlling that?

Like I said...I get enough propaganda...I don't NEED to read this thread to know what every argument you have is. It's al propoganda.

Now...don't get it twisted...I know there is a lot of propoganda on BOTH sides of the fence. But...I will ALWAYS side with the defense of Civil Liberties, and NEVER side against them.

I side with keeping what I have earned and protecting our country.

If you wanna get mad at the government for trying to control you...get mad about them trying to control your thoughts, your actions, and your convictions...not the cost of your medical care or the level of education we have in this country which, in case you forgot, is laughable on it's BEST day.

Things HAVE changed. The economy is better. It's not good...but it's better...and getting better still. Education is in the crapper...but the efforts to make it better are being thwarted by comparing it to indoctrination and Hitler. Health Care has been in MAJOR need of reformation and restructuring since Clinton left office. But any effort made to fix it and make it better is called socialism.

You don't want change. You want a country free of poor, homeless, and down-trodden, where you can be free to make as much money off the backs and labor of "lesser people" as you can. You want a country where the rich get richer and the poor die trying. You want a country where you cannot afford to live unless you eat with a silver spoon.

You would rather believe that our government is trying to kill old people and destroy babies, than strive for a different future. You would rather thwart efforts at change by yelling "SOCIALISM" at the top of your lungs, than actually give the changes a chance to be implemented and see if it works. You would rather imprison US citizens with no charges, no trial, and no evidence than allow a poor, homeless child the chance at the same level of medical care that you pay $1,000 a month for.

Like I said, I want to keep what I have worked hard for. Is that so much to ask? Why does someone else who has no job of their own, deserve my money? That I worked for? That I earned? Why do they deserve it?

I hate people...

Gotcha.

Yes, deary. In order to drag our country out of the DEEPEST FINANCIAL PIT IN HISTORY...it took some cash. At least you got THAT part right... oke:

Some cash? Is some the proper term to use here? Try a (insert your own word) load of cash.

 

[starsevol]

Yes, deary. In order to drag our country out of the DEEPEST FINANCIAL PIT IN HISTORY...it took some cash. At least you got THAT part right... oke:

Can you prove to me that this is the deepest finanicial pit in history?
We aren't even calling this a "depression".
I don't see people jumping out of buildings due to financial ruin.

There is no way to justify what Obama is spending, and there is no way his spending is going to make life better for the ones who will have to pay the bill when it comes due....

 

[mike17l]

And KJUN...do you really believe the things you write? If so...I'm sorry for you. You are so far off base on most of your replies, that I can't even begin to dissect what you have gathered from conspiracy theory websites and what you discussed with Joe the Plumber over a 6-pack...

That was BO, a black professor and a white cop. And, they accomplished absolutely nothing.

 

[mike17l]

There is no way to justify what Obama is spending, and there is no way his spending is going to make life better for the ones who will have to pay the bill when it comes due....

That would be me, my future children (assuming I ever find true love and have kids), and everyone else who actually works.

 

[Camby]

They are voting to keep us there with a timeline for removal. Hmm...someone starts a war with NO exit strategy that everyone supports while he is in office, but you cry foul when the next guy can't do it in 6 months? Do you realize the state of emergency that will ensue if the US backs out of this war at this moment? Those countries are in their miost unstable state in their histories, as is usually the case during a change of this nature...and you expect us to just pack up and leave, no support, no institutions, and no government in place.

First, I never cried foul in regards to him not being able to do it in 6 months. Here is a news flash, HE keeps backing up the time line. He beat that dead horse into the next month and kicked it into the next century during the campaign. Obama is the one who said he had a stategy to have us out in less than a year (I think, I may be off a little), but he keeps backing that up now.

Truth is, if all the Obama supporters feel Bush was that evil AND intelligent, then he would still be in office if he wanted. Heck, if he could convince congress to go to war with bogus info, then surely he could convince them to do away with term limits right? Seriously, you give him too much credit!

Secondly, I haven't stated we should pull out either, but it is hard to take a party serious when all during hte last House, Senate and Presidential campaigns they keep saying we can get us out, it was all the Republicans fault, but once they get in, they can't do it. That tells me one of two things, ethier they didn't have a clue wht they were talking about and actually had/have no real strategy OR they just said what it took to get votes????

dc

 

[mike17l]

OR they just said what it took to get votes????

DING DING DING, and we have a winner folks.

 

[tyflier]

Can you prove to me that this is the deepest finanicial pit in history?
We aren't even calling this a "depression".
I don't see people jumping out of buildings due to financial ruin.

There is no way to justify what Obama is spending, and there is no way his spending is going to make life better for the ones who will have to pay the bill when it comes due....

Semantics? Really? If "they" chose to call it a Depression...would it help? Our financial institutions are in ruins, requiring bailouts from the government(initiated under Bush). Our medical facilities are in a shambles compared to other "developed nations". Our education system is an absolute dsaster. And yes...our debt is now higher than it has ever been in history. You know what it takes to fix these things? MONEY. So yea...it IS justifiable.

You wanna make your money and keep your money. So do I. That's why I am AGAINST large financial institutions being allowed to "self-regulate"...we know where that gets us. That's why I am AGAINST large insurance companies being allowed to charge whatever they want, increaser those rates on average by 12% every year, and still refuse to pay for services based on "pre-existing" (uhh...we are human. we all start to die at the moment of birth. ALL conditions are pre-existing). That's why I am AGAINST the richest 2% of the nation getting tax breaks and tax cuts and tax credits every year(because I have to pick up the slack). That's why I am AGAINST privatizing profits while publicizing debt(thanks again, Bush administration).

See...if you want a society with services, institutions, regulations, law enforcement and a military...you gotta pay for that. If you want a society with educated people that are healthy, viable, able to contribute, able to work and able to be responsible citizens...it costs money. If you want a prison system that actually works, criminals off the street, and the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness...it costs money. That money comes from taxes.

Funny how taxes effect change, and help us get out of debt, but everyone complaining about the debt, the money spent to effect change, and the policies to effect change don't want to pay taxes. How's that for irony?

Here, let me put it simply. Basically, what I keep reading over and over again in this thread is, "I want change. But don't expect ME to pay for the change, because if I have to pay to make changes...it's socialism. I want you to change everything that I supported for the last 8 years, and if it doesn't change this moment, you aren't doing your job. I want to live in an economically stable society where I get to keep my money when I make it, but if you try to regulate business practices to protect the country from unscrupulous businesses, it's socialism".

Hopeless. A hopeless lot that cannot see the forrest because there are too many damn trees in the way...

Or maybe it's OK if you have to give every penny you make to someone that runs a different corporation(like medical insurance or ENRON), as long as that money isn't used to help someone that might actually need a little help...